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Old 12th May 2013, 01:33
Michael Ullmann Michael Ullmann is offline
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RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

Regarding my previous posting dealing with my discovery that RLM 83 had indeed a darkblue color some questions about RLM 81/82 appeared. I would like to share the other breathtaking discovery I made. Read the text carefully:
Test order E2-45/19 (Flight verification of camouflage „Land“)
Report June 1943: The to darken RLM 70/71 will be replaced with color 281 H (olivgreen) and B657 (brightgreen). After 9 month of environmental testing they are very lightresistant.
Report August 1943: The new colors RLM 81 and 82 (brown tint) introduced
Report October 1943: The exposure of the colors (also small production batches) after finishing the summer sun period showing no discoloration.
Report December 1943: RLM 81 and 82 introduced. Lightresistant without objection
Report February 1944: RLM 81 and 82 accordingly report 2138/43 dated 02. July 1943 introduced. Lightresistant, including serial production, without objection.


The question is where are we now?
  • First is: Now we knew the real reason of the need of the new camouflage colors RLM 81/82. It is not raw material shortages, is not better ground camouflage. The reason is that RLM 70/71 when longer used has the tendency to darken that the camouflage effect was lost.
  • The new colors were introduced much earlier than previously thought (October 1943, small production batches).
  • There must a more than a handful aircraft with the new camouflage in Travemünde. The reports described a Do 217 coded RO+GK.
  • It is now very possible that the greens used for JG 54 aircraft in 1942 and 1943 are test paint sample of RLM 81/82 for troop trail.
  • Why it needs so long till summer 1944 that RLM 81/82 was used on mass production fighters? The answer is simple: The manufactory has huge stocks of the “old” paint.
  • Why we can see RLM 81 brown oliv / darkgreen camouflages? This is a RLM 81/71 camouflage! I am pretty sure that a today still undiscovered order exist that allows, if the stock of paints was exhausted to replace the not available paint with the old paint. This allows the manufactory to paint the fighter aircraft in RLM 81/75 or 71 and allows 70 or 74/82 camouflage variation.
By the way: Attached you will find a scan of one page of my November 1943 monthly report. This is to prevent that someone had the idea to post that he missed the evidences of what I wrote. Believe it or not: The history of RLM 81/82/83 must be rewritten.
And please keep in mind I am a German native and I have access to all the files in Germany and, much more important, I can read the text of such documents and understand the content properly.
Looking forward to read all the posts and hone your skills in Germany language
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File Type: jpg Monthly Report November 1943.jpg (201.9 KB, 261 views)
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Old 12th May 2013, 02:30
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Re: RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

Michael, what were the original German words for "The to darken RLM 70/71" please? This doesn't make sense in English.
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Old 12th May 2013, 03:41
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Re: RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

Last lines of that report:

Entwicklung und Erprobung einer tarnung für Mittelmeereinsatz.: Abgeschlossen mit S-Bericht vom 10.11.43. Farbton 83 dunkelblau in Verbindung mit Farbton 72 schwarzgrün für See- und 70 dunkelgrün für Landflugzeuge zur Einführung vorgeschlagen.

'Development and testing of a camouflage for Mediterranean use.: Finished with S-report from 10.11.43. 83 dark blue hue proposed in conjunction with 72 hue black green for sea and 70 dark green for land planes to be introduced.'

Seems it only pertains to Mediterranean use only. Possible that RLM 83 would remain Dark Green for anything other then MTO. Just speculating here, no hard facts.
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Old 12th May 2013, 11:34
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Re: RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberst View Post
Last lines of that report:

Entwicklung und Erprobung einer tarnung für Mittelmeereinsatz.: Abgeschlossen mit S-Bericht vom 10.11.43. Farbton 83 dunkelblau in Verbindung mit Farbton 72 schwarzgrün für See- und 70 dunkelgrün für Landflugzeuge zur Einführung vorgeschlagen.

'Development and testing of a camouflage for Mediterranean use.: Finished with S-report from 10.11.43. 83 dark blue hue proposed in conjunction with 72 hue black green for sea and 70 dark green for land planes to be introduced.'
I'd differ a little in the translation: "Development and testing of a camouflage for operations in the Mediterranean: Concluded with [the] S-Report of 10.11.43. Paint colour 83 proposed in conjunction with paint colour 72 black-green for maritime [aircraft] and 70 dark green for land aircraft."
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Old 12th May 2013, 13:03
Michael Ullmann Michael Ullmann is offline
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Re: RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

Hola,
the original sentence in German is:
Die nachdunkelnden Farbtöne 70 u. 71 der bisherigen Landtarnung werden abgelöst durch die Farben 281 H olivgrün und B 657 hellgrün ....

I hate the discussion, but you have finaly figured out that RLM 83 is darkblue! It is hard for me to explain, but their are strict rules in RLM and to avoid any confusion they never gave a new part (In our case a new paint) an old number. The German armed forces today made it the same way. Again there are only two documents exist that listed RLM 83. No surface protection list exist that listed RLM 83, because the paint was for unit or depot maintenance level, not for production. This darkgreen is a darkgreen variation of RLM 81 or the use of RLM 70/71 with 81/82.

Best Regards from Germany
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Old 12th May 2013, 19:06
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Re: RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ullmann View Post
Hola,
the original sentence in German is:
Die nachdunkelnden Farbtöne 70 u. 71 der bisherigen Landtarnung werden abgelöst durch die Farben 281 H olivgrün und B 657 hellgrün ....
I'd translate that as "Paint colours 70 and 71 of the current land camouflage, [which] get darker, will be replaced by paints 281 H olive green and B 657 light green …"

It is clear from the rest of what Michael quotes about testing that 70 and 71 get darker after prolonged exposure to sunlight.
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Old 12th May 2013, 20:57
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

I find this statement about darkening very puzzling, because it is seems clear from b+w photos that 70/71 have very little contrast when new, yet considerable contrast when older. 70 is pretty dark when new anyway: how much darker can it get? It would seem from the photographic evidence that 71 gets lighter with age.
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Old 13th May 2013, 05:04
Oberst Oberst is offline
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Re: RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

Comparison:

Original RLM 70/71 colour foto (general approx. shades):


Converted to black & white
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Old 13th May 2013, 05:48
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Re: RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Boak View Post
I find this statement about darkening very puzzling, because it is seems clear from b+w photos that 70/71 have very little contrast when new, yet considerable contrast when older. 70 is pretty dark when new anyway: how much darker can it get? It would seem from the photographic evidence that 71 gets lighter with age.
Hi Graham,

I will say more: I've never seen paints darkening with time under sun/weather effects. (Just look at your old car if you haven't closed garage)
But, and too, the weathering effect depends of the colour/tone (Hence the contrast enhancing you are talking about when getting older) ; for example, it is well known among the sailors that a red sail is more resistant than a white one (same quality, same fabric, same factory)... Without talking about a blue one which is catastrophic!!

Regards, Franck.
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Old 13th May 2013, 08:53
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Re: RLM 81/82 – More secrets unveiled

Quote:
I will say more: I've never seen paints darkening with time under sun/weather effects
Fully agree!!!
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