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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
On eBay here there is a photo of a Ju 87 A. The aircraft has a stkz GT+__ which would be appropriate for the aircraft being used in a training unit. However it quite clearly wears the emblem used by III./StG 51 (and later II./StG 1). Are there any of records of these combat units still having Ju 87As post 1939, or is there another answer to this?
Ian |
#2
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Re: eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
Hi, Ian...
The seller on e-bay has jumped the gun, again... this is not the insignia for III./St.G.1, which is a Tyrolean eagle. This aircraft is actually carrying the Brandenburg eagle of Fluglehrerschule der Luftwaffe, K&R 684 or 789, depending on whether one has the original or updated edition. Regards, Paul |
#3
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Re: eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
Yes, thanks Paul. I had noticed the different shape of the shield/eagle, but had not spotted the smaller shield on the body of the eagle. Thanks for this solution, which makes much more sense.
Cheers Ian |
#4
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Re: eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
Quote:
Thank you for the info! So; Since there is no aircraft list used by this unit in Michael Holm's site somebody as an idea please? Just to avoid - in next future - comments like " Oh pilot was (most probably - sic) from Pomerania (or else since Pomerania emblem is a griffon) " On Bf109 for example... Thanks for any help. Regards, Franck. |
#5
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Re: eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
Hello Franck
Try Ketley & Rolfe old edition for the unit ID. I have images of examples of Bf-109B-2, Bf-108, Fw-58, He-111, Fw 44 and Bu-131 with this emblem. Strange that Barry Rosch does not mention this unit. Chris |
#6
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Re: eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
Thanks Chris,
Will try to check the BF109 pics first to compare the emblems with that one on JU87. Next will search on torrent!!!! Good source, too! Regards, Franck. |
#7
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Re: eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
This is probably of no interest because it does not deal with codes and markings, but what the heck, here it is anyway:
Fluglehrerschule d.Lw. KStN: 1868 (L). Established (April? July?) 1939 at Brandenburg-Briest to train instructor personnel for the various flying schools. Training detachments (Ausbildungskommandos) were eventually set up at 6 other airfields during the war years: Altengrabow, Aschersleben, Salzwedel, Quedlinburg, Prenzlau and Fürstenwalde. Representative aircraft losses charged to the school are noted below. 11 Oct 40: Fw 44 A-9 crashed and destroyed at Altengrabow airfield. 6 Mar 41: Ju 88 A-1 crashed and destroyed at Brandenburg-Briest airfield. 23 Feb 42: Fw 44 based at Quedlinburg crashed near Friedrichsbrunn and destroyed. 1942-43: frequent crashes and accidents at Brandenburg-Briest and Quedlinburg. 9 Dec 43: Ju 52 crashed and destroyed at Brandenburg-Briest airfield, Hptm. Heinz Gebhardt and 1 other killed, Hptm. Claus Sommer and 3 others injured. 29 Mar 44: 5 Bü 181s shot down by U.S. fighters over the Wernigerode area near Quedlinburg, 1 killed and 2 wounded. Sum 44: under 2. Fliegerschuldivision with the following organization - Stab and the Ausbildungsgruppenstab at Brandenburg-Briest and subordinated: Überprüfungslehrgang LF at Salzwedel Überprüfungslehrgang LF at Prenzlau Überprüfungslehrgang ELF at Quedlinburg 1.u.2.Techn.Kp. 6 Aug 44: a Si 204 B (70%) and a Fw 58 (15%) based at Brandenburg-Briest were strafed on the ground at Altengrabow/31 km SW of Brandenburg-Briest. Feb 45: Brandenburg-Briest under 4. Fliegerschuldivision. 22 Feb 45: an Ar 96 B-7 destroyed during a strafing pass on Quedlinburg airfield by Allied fighters. 9 Apr 45: ordered disbanded at Brandenburg-Briest and many of the personnel were conscripted as infantry and assigned to Kampfgruppe Havelberg/Elbe. Leiter/Kommandeur: Obstlt. Erich van Vloten (1 Apr 39 - 1 Aug 40) Gen.Maj. Otto Fruhner (5 Aug 40 - 9 Apr 45) [Sources: NASM T-2/USSBS roll 7001/8178; British Air Ministry – Post Hostilities Study A.I.12/M.76; BA-MA Freiburg: Signatur RL 2 III Loss Reports; G.Tessin - Teil 14: Die Luftstreitkräfte (Osnabrück, 1980); K.Ries - Deutsche Flugzeugführerschulen und ihre Maschinen 1919-1945 (Stuttgart, 1988), S.Carlsen/M.Meyer - Die Flugzeugführer-Ausbildung der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1935-1945, Band 1 (Zweibrücken, 1998), p437.] |
#8
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Re: eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
Thanks Larry,
No it does! At least because you are giving sources. Regards, Franck. |
#9
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Re: eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
Thanks Larry, at last, some kind of history for this unit!
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#10
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Re: eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?
Yes Chris!
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