Hauptmann Gustav Rodel's G-4 help please

[Jesters-Ink]

I have seen profiles of Hauptmann Gustav Rodel's BF109G-4 with and without a yellow bib.
Does anyone know if there are some "good" photographs available or at the least some reliable text on his AC? I also need his Works number too if possible.
I have his AC looking like this atm--->

[Brettas]

Hi,

I have a picture of this aircraft. I think the crop to be yellow.
If you send me your e-mail I was able to scanear this picture and to send you.
Hugs
E. Brettas
www.avesdobrasil.com.br

[F19Gladiator]

There is a picture of the starboard side on page 248 in Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings 1933-1945, Vol 2, K.A. Merrick.
Also published in other publications I believe.

Edit:
There is a similar but different photo of the starboard side on page 153 in 'Aircraft of the Luftwaffe Aces I, Bernd Barbas, Schiffer.

Here a P-40 is seen in the background, coded CY o ? Captioned as "Gustav Rödel's (Kommodore of JG 27) left back in Sicily"

Interestingly, the Swastika can not be seen on the tail on this picture! Censored?

[F19Gladiator]

Aviation Elite Units 12, Jagdgeschwader 27 'Afrika', John Weal, Page 89:

Photo of port side. Caption is interesting as it casts some doubt on who actually flew this a c and where. Quote:

"0ften illustrated, and long thought to be the aircraft of 'Edu' Neumann's successor, Gustav Rödel, when Kommodore of JG 27 in Sicily in the spring of 1943, this photograph of the distinctively-marked 'White Triple Chevron 4' taken from the port side, shows a background terrain - billiard table flat and dotted with camel-thorn scrub - much more reminiscent of North Africa. It is now believed this machine is one belonging to Geschwaderstab of JG 77 which was abandoned in Tripolitania in January 1943 - but proof positive has yet to be established."

I can not find that any of the two photos I have referred to can verify the II/JG 27 emblem on the cowling.

In Osprey Aircraft of the Aces 2, page 41, a colour profile is again showing the II Gruppe emblem on this a c, captioned as being Rödels's G-4Trop.

[Jesters-Ink]

I knew I'd come to the right place, thanks guys for the info.
Any pics or text can be sent to me at jesters-ink@ntlworld.com.
Many thanks again.

[Jesters-Ink]

Thank for the pics guys, this is how she looks now given what I've seen so far. . .

Also looks like the unit badge should be removed . . .

[G.R.Morrison]

The Bf 109G-2 (not G-4) illustrated is not Rodel's aircraft. It belonged to the Stab of the JG 77. The Kommodore at this time was Joachim Muencheberg. The photos of this machine were not taken on Sicily, but on a satellite field near Arco Philaenorum, Libya. There was no II/JG 27 badge on the cowl.

This is an excellent example of a mis-identification being repeated enough times to gain it legitimacy. There are photos of other Stab JG 77 Bf 109G-2s with very similar markings (white chevron, small numbers): <1, <3, <6 come to mind.

I was able to determine WNr. and loss date (some time in October I believe, I cannot recall precisely), but I don't happen to have that handy here at work; IF I remember, I'll post it when I get back on Wednesday.

Sorry to put the cat amongst the pigeons, but there are a number of examples of repeated mis-identifications that continue to haunt us: Schroer's Bf 109E-7/Trop "schwarze 8" that's not his; Rudel's Ju 87B-2 "T6+AD" that not his, etc.

HTH, GRM

[F19Gladiator]

The Rebuilt Bf 109 G-2 (Ex Spanish HA-1112) given this camouflage and labelled as Rödel's kite, in the Luftwaffe Museum, Gatow, Berlin, is adorned with the W.Nr. 10575. I do not know the source the Museum is relying on.

The W.Nr. 10575 put on this ac is a Messerschmitt serial of an Erla built series of 384 G-2/Trop, between 07.42 and 12.42. (Source: Messerschmitt Bf 109 F,G & K Series, J.Prien & P.Rodeike, Schiffer, page 63)

The museum aircraft has been given a yellow 4 instead of white 4. It is also showing the II/JG 27 emblem on the cowling. The b/w pictures indicate a white 4 though, and I have so far not seen a picture with the II/JG 27 emblem on the cowling - Even if it might exist???? As it is doubtful that this is a JG 27 ac at all (See posting above), it might well be that it never caaried that emblem for obvious reasons!

Google on Bf 109 and Rödel and you will find pictures of the museum aircraft painted as "tripple chevron 4".

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by G.R.Morrison

The Bf 109G-2 (not G-4) illustrated is not Rodel's aircraft. It belonged to the Stab of the JG 77. The Kommodore at this time was Joachim Muencheberg. The photos of this machine were not taken on Sicily, but on a satellite field near Arco Philaenorum, Libya. There was no II/JG 27 badge on the cowl.

This is an excellent example of a mis-identification being repeated enough times to gain it legitimacy. There are photos of other Stab JG 77 Bf 109G-2s with very similar markings (white chevron, small numbers): <1, <3, <6 come to mind.

I was able to determine WNr. and loss date (some time in October I believe, I cannot recall precisely), but I don't happen to have that handy here at work; IF I remember, I'll post it when I get back on Wednesday.

Sorry to put the cat amongst the pigeons, but there are a number of examples of repeated mis-identifications that continue to haunt us: Schroer's Bf 109E-7/Trop "schwarze 8" that's not his; Rudel's Ju 87B-2 "T6+AD" that not his, etc.

HTH, GRM

George! Glad you deigned to join us! Love to have the date and Wnr.

[Jesters-Ink]

This is exactly the reason why we came here in the first place.
In short, we feed on what is published (right or wrong) and we end up believing in it, as we know no different. A lot of people won’t understand that it the research that takes the time, not the drawing. Our templates take about 2 months to get the basics roughed in then about a further 2 months to tune up.
Double that in research for each aircrafts markings and you get a real idea why things take so long.

So I thank you guys whole heartedly, not for throwing a spanner in the works, but shining a light on the truth. We want our profiles to be as accurate and well detailed as they can be. So no more misconceptions, no more inaccurate aircraft designations, so I beg to ask, whose aircraft was it? I also would be more than grateful to know the unit, date and location.

Many thanks again for preventing another misrepresentation.