Messerschmitt 109E/F canopy Info?

[pstrany]

Hi;
I'm doing a model of the Messerschmitt 109F, and I have a question about the canopy. The main (opening part) canopy is comprised of 6 pieces of plexiglass, two pieces on top, and two on each side. The front piece slides back under the the back piece on both sides and top (I can imagine things must get very drafty if all these windows are slid open at the same time.)

Now my question is this. Where the pieces overlap, some pictures seem to show a dark stripe, while other pictures show only clear plexiglass. Was there a metal strip that ran along the edge of the plexiglass on some models, or is it just that dirt would accumulate there, making it appear that there was a strip of metal there?

Sorry, I know this is really anal, but I like to get the details right. I'll scan and post some pictures showing what I mean wehn I get home.

Thanks!

Paul

[Pawel Burchard]

http://www.radub.com/
and search for etched Bf 109 F canopy

p.

[ChrisS]

Originally Posted by pstrany

Hi;
other pictures show only clear plexiglass. Was there a metal strip that ran along the edge of the plexiglass on some models, or is it just that dirt would accumulate there, making it appear that there was a strip of metal there?Paul

Hello Paul

This picture shows only clear plexiglass. I cannot imagine that dirt would be allowed ANYWHERE on a canopy so a metal strip must have existed.

Cheers

Chris

[ChrisS]

I've just realised that in my previous post the picture is of the early type Bf 109 canopy, so I attach a number of illustrations of later types. First three are Emils and the last two Bf 109Fs. Looking at these I think the darker colour is caused by the overlap of plexiglass not a metal strip. Lastly I show a drawing from Sqaudron Siignals Bf 109 in Action illustrating the E-3 and E-4 canopy.

A warning: the preserved Bf 109E at BoB Museum Hendon has a G-6 canopy so beware using any pictures of this aircraft as reference. The original was lost during flight trials in 1941. Both the current Bf109E flying replicas NX81562 in Canada and N342FH owned by FHC have the canopies illustrated below. I have pictures of both of these replicas if you wish them.
Cheers

Chris

[bavgan]

Paul,

I guess you are mentioning the overlapping area between the 2 plexiglass sections on the sides of the middle canopy. I attach 2 manual pages below. The first is from Bf 109F parts manual, while the second is from Bf 109E (showing the early style canopy). No parts are seen there. If there had been a metal piece there, it would have been on the manual with a part number.

Regards,

Batur

[markjsheppard]

ChrisS

Assume you mean Bf109E 3579 and 1407 'restorations/rebuilds'. They are definately not replicas.

Also Bf109E-7 3523 which was down in Worthing just had the two pieces of perspex to the sides. They were overlapping and nothing more. The sides were openable though not sure about the top section. I have photos at home so will have a look tonight and hopefully post something.

regards

MS

[bavgan]

Talking about restorations, I have been surfing at Falcon's Bf 109 website a couple of days ago, and saw the restoration page of Bf 109E, WNr 2023 at http://bf-109.com/web.php?lang=en&auth=e&name=ueberlebende-ausgabe&flugzeug=14 . Afterwards, I check the website of Fighter Factory, which is responsible with the restoration of the 2023 at http://www.fighterfactory.com/restoration/messerschmitt-bf-109.php . It is written that while the company is restoring a Bf 109E by using the remains of 5 wrecks found in Russia, the "substantial portion of the plane" was coming from the remains of WNr 2023.

The poor condition of WNr 2023 wreck at http://old.messerschmitt-bf109.de/pi...7-farbfoto.jpg made me ask myself if it is right to name the project as a "restoration". It is clear that nothing usable was left from 2023. So, when the project is finished, what percent of the parts will be original?

It may be a common act to use the word restoration once you have a wreck in your hand. However, I believe it is not true to do this, if you rebuilt %90 percent of the a/c.

The work done there seemed to me a rebuilt or making a replica. May I ask you what you think?

Regards,

Batur

[ChrisS]

Originally Posted by markjsheppard

ChrisS

Assume you mean Bf109E 3579 and 1407 'restorations/rebuilds'. They are definately not replicas.

MS

Mark

I did mean replicas. Virtually no original material in them excepting outsourced engines and ancillary equipment. Virtually nothing on original airframes could be used other them as formers. Fuselage, wings and enpenage all new build. Same goes for all the Hurricanes, Spit's and P.51s 'rebuilt' in the last 20 years. All formed around a makers identity plate. If you tip up at some of the 'restoration' companies armed with a swatch of identity plates you can have a brand new aircraft. I note that one of the FlugWerke FW 190's has now 'surfaced' as an original.

It would be nice to think of an original Bf 109 flying out there, but the last one crashed at Duxford.

Chris

[David Ransome]

Hi,

Usually the key part to decide a serial or WNr was the fuselage, just as during wartime in the repair shops, so I suppose it may depend on how much of the original fuselage has been used.

As regards canopy panels, the forward top panel did slide back and sometimes (maybe always) had a perspex knob or bar glued to it to make it easier. On the He111 crew members sometimes fixed a 'bristle' or felt type draught excluder at the back edge of the left side sliding panel, maybe 109 pilots did the same occasionally?

Regards

David

[markjsheppard]

Chris/David

Sure it has been discussed before. I am sure there is equivalent ideas/agreements with classic cars.

Original - hardly unaltered since manufacture?
(Black 6 would just about be in this section as well as museum examples).

Restoration - substantially complete to start with (would you say a % or center section area?). I would say Fw190A5 is a restoration - nearly all structure/skinning/undercarriage/wheels/canopy etc were reused or original second hand. They replaced two external skins. Main spar rebuilt. Wings - one casting and two ribs replaced though these might have been refitted after repairs and restoration was taken over by Paul Allen.

Rebuild - substantial airframe to start with. Large proportion reused.
3579 - the wing structure was original, large castings were reused, fuselage was new though.

New build - manufactured to original blueprints.(Flugwerk Fw190 or US Me262's - engines have been changed though?!

Replica - 2/3 scale, full size but large sections with changes -
engine/avionics/undercarriage/construction. Some of the kit ones.

Therefore I would not say 3579 was a replica as it was a 95% complete aircraft to start with. 1407 is a bit different as it was largely rebuilt.

Sure other people have there ideas.

regards

Mark