Air combats of Chinese Civil War 1945-1949?

[GuerraCivil]

This still seems to be a rather confused subject of which little reliable info is less available than the contradictory info.

All you posted sounds logical, but this website http://www.airwar1946.nl/whif/L46-chinjet.htm - claims otherwise and that there was quite operational communist air force in China by 1946 which was equipped with a large number of Yak 9 fighters (in article it is stated that La 11 were also delivered, but more likely La 5 or La 7 at that time). And in 1947 they received even jets like Yak-15 from Soviet Union and with Yak jets they wiped the Nationalist piston-engined fighters out of sky!

It does not sound to me just flying schools and some completely ragtag thing with almost all planes grounded due to lack of spare parts and pilots. But perhaps the whole web thing is a bug or daydreams for modellers?

I have also read a series of articles of Anatoli Demin (Soviet fighters in the Sky of China) - if focuses on the Soviet support to ROCAF but there is mention that first communist Chinese airmen were trained in Soviet Union already by 1930´s. Of course it does not mean anything in practice if they did not get planes to fly. During the Sino-Japanese war I have not read from any source that communists would have been active in aerial warfare. Perhaps Mao or other bosses had some private or liason plane for their personal use.

The whole history of communist air force in China before 1949 would deserve some web article, which is based on some solid and profound study taking in account all the available sources and weighing carefully what is true info and what is misinfo. To me it looks now like a history of almost complete nonexistence before the year 1949 ("mainstream view") but with contradictory info around (varying from: they had practically nothing before 1949! - to: they had lots Yaks and even jets by 1947!).

[jednastka]

Originally Posted by GuerraCivil

All you posted sounds logical, but this website http://www.airwar1946.nl/whif/L46-chinjet.htm - claims otherwise

The title of this website is a dead giveaway.; airwar 1946. None of this occurred. This is just one of many what-if the war had continued websites. The US P-59 was never supplied to anyone.

The final nail in the coffin is the statement..."At first Japan needed all energy to repair the damage in Japan done by the US bombers during 1945 but from 1947 on they started shipping equipment to Manchuria again. Among the aircraft delivered were the Yokosuka R2Y Keiun and the Kyushi J7W Shinden." followed by.."In Japan meanwhile the development of jet aircraft progressed and in 1947 the Nakajima J8N4 Kikka fighter reached the squadrons of the Japanese Air Force. "

[GuerraCivil]

Originally Posted by jednastka

The title of this website is a dead giveaway.; airwar 1946. None of this occurred. This is just one of many what-if the war had continued websites."

Agree - internet is full of misinformation and fantasy stories. But what about this statement of wiki article on ROCAF:

ROCAF General HQ was established in June 1946. From 1946 to 1948, during the Chinese Civil War, the ROCAF participated in combat against the People's Liberation Army engaging in air to air combat on at least eleven occasions in the areas surrounding the Taiwan Strait. The ROCAF reportedly enjoyed a 31:1 kill ratio against the PLA.

Well, the kill ratio looks fantastic but exaggerated to me. I wonder if they mean with those aerial engagements and 31:1 kill ratio all the airwar that has happened during the "Cold War" between PRC and Taiwan from late 1949 onward? Or did the mentioned eleven occasions of air combat take place before the establishment of PRC and current PRC/Taiwan boundaries on October 1949?

Here what PLAAF wiki tells:
The PLA had operated few aircraft before that (10.11.1949). The PLA's first organized air unit, the Nanyuan Flying Group, was formed only in the summer of 1949 from about 40 ex-Nationalist aircraft; its task was to defend Beijing, the nation's new capital.

This is to state categorically that Chinese communists did not have a single organized operational air unit until summer 1949. Did it really take that long for them to set up a first operational unit of their air force?

But wiki is wiki - sometimes very good info, sometimes somewhat correct info and sometimes just rotten tomatoes.

[mars]

Originally Posted by GuerraCivil

Well, the kill ratio looks fantastic but exaggerated to me. I wonder if they mean with those aerial engagements and 31:1 kill ratio all the airwar that has happened during the "Cold War" between PRC and Taiwan from late 1949 onward? Or did the mentioned eleven occasions of air combat take place before the establishment of PRC and current PRC/Taiwan boundaries on October 1949?

Here what PLAAF wiki tells:
The PLA had operated few aircraft before that (10.11.1949). The PLA's first organized air unit, the Nanyuan Flying Group, was formed only in the summer of 1949 from about 40 ex-Nationalist aircraft; its task was to defend Beijing, the nation's new capital.

This is to state categorically that Chinese communists did not have a single organized operational air unit until summer 1949. Did it really take that long for them to set up a first operational unit of their air force?

But wiki is wiki - sometimes very good info, sometimes somewhat correct info and sometimes just rotten tomatoes.

This is true enough, before 1949, communist had neither aircrafts and spare parts,nor pilots (large scale of defection did not happen until later part of 1948), nor functional airports, nor trained ground crews to create an operational airforce.

P.S Nationalist did not achieve a 31:1 killing ratio against PLAFF, it was old code war propoganda, even Taiwanese no long calims that in noawdays.

[mars]

Originally Posted by GuerraCivil

I have also read a series of articles of Anatoli Demin (Soviet fighters in the Sky of China) - if focuses on the Soviet support to ROCAF but there is mention that first communist Chinese airmen were trained in Soviet Union already by 1930´s. Of course it does not mean anything in practice if they did not get planes to fly. During the Sino-Japanese war I have not read from any source that communists would have been active in aerial warfare. Perhaps Mao or other bosses had some private or liason plane for their personal use.

The story of these "airmen" was like this, in 1936, a force about twenty thousand communist army were sent to march west to establish the land communication with Soviet, but after 5 months of desperate fight, they were wipped out by Nationalist, but serveral hunderd of survivor managed to reach XingJiang which was under controlled a then pro-Soviet warlord, among these survivors maybe 20-30 were sent to USSR to receive flying training, most of them returned to China after Sino-Japanese war broke out in 1937, but since there was no airplane for them to fly, they served as infantry, I believe very few of them transfered to PLAAF after 1949