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  #11  
Old 18th June 2018, 17:53
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Unit code for SAGr 127

Thanks Leo

Which book is that? I know Bo wrote at least three. I only have the one he wrote in Swedish, which does not contain this info.
It seems then that the aircraft had in fact once belonged to 3./SAGr 127 but transferred to the single remaining Staffel when both 2. and 3. Staffeln were re-designated.

At least we now have a reason why Bo and likely the Swedish Air Force at the time actually thought they all three still belonged to the 3. Staffeln.

I must confess this proved to be a very interesting topic indeed.

Cheers
Stig
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  #12  
Old 18th June 2018, 18:34
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Unit code for SAGr 127

Hello Stig,

the book is "The Luftwaffe in Sweden, 1939-1945" published 1983 by Monogram Aviation Publications, Massachusetts, ISBN 0-9144144-28-6.

Regards
Leo
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  #13  
Old 18th June 2018, 21:33
Merlin Merlin is offline
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Re: Unit code for SAGr 127

Matti,

thanks for the extensive list of Ar 95 documented by the Finnish Air Surveillance units, it confirms also from that side that 1./SAGr 127 flew with 6R+xL codes.

Are in those files also other aircraft (He 50, He 60 or Hs 126) from SAGr 127 with 6R codes listed?
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  #14  
Old 18th June 2018, 22:25
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: Unit code for SAGr 127

Unfortunately the logbooks have survived only for the period of 24.09.1943 - 04.09.1944.
All He 50 operated then by NSGr. 11 were reported using prefix 3W with strange rest of the code:
3W+AN
3W+AV
3W+FO
3W+HI
3W+MR
3W+NC
3W+NJ
3W+NO
3W+NP
3W+NS
3W+NX
3W+RX
3W+ZN
It is as if the first part of SKZ had simply been replaced by 3W.

Hs 126 were flying probably with SKZ till late March 1944 and after that using 6R+xL code. Problem is that Luftwaffe did not give the Staffel (or Gruppe) when informing the Finnish Air Force of the flights. However, there were not very many Hs 50 and Hs 126 operators in Tallinn at that time.
There are at least the following Hs 126 with SKZ:
BA+HR
BA+NM
BT+HR
GE+OA
GE+XA
GE+YA
KB+FK
KB+PN
KB+TN
KJ+CT
VA+NK

and the following with 6R+xL:
6R+LL
6R+ML
6R+NL
6R+PL
6R+QL
6R+RL
6R+SL
6R+TL

Matti
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  #15  
Old 19th June 2018, 12:41
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Unit code for SAGr 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottler View Post
Hello Stig,

the book is "The Luftwaffe in Sweden, 1939-1945" published 1983 by Monogram Aviation Publications, Massachusetts, ISBN 0-9144144-28-6.

Regards
Leo
Thanks again Leo

No I don't have that one

Cheers
Stig
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  #16  
Old 19th June 2018, 12:47
Merlin Merlin is offline
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Re: Unit code for SAGr 127

These are the He 50 Stammkennzeichen, which could be identified:

3W+AN CC+AN
3W+AV GN+AV
3W+FO BO+FO
3W+HI TC+HI
3W+MR
3W+NC NN+NC WNr. 976
3W+NJ NG+NJ
3W+NO RS+NO WNr. 1260
3W+NP GN+NP or CU+NP
3W+NS GM+NS
3W+NX GM+NX
3W+RX
3W+ZN PC+ZN

Some Corrections to Hs 126 Stammkennzeichen:
BA+HR
BA+NM
BT+HR => BA+HR
GE+OA
GE+XA
GE+YA => GE+XA
KB+FK
KB+PN => KB+TN
KB+TN
KJ+CT
VA+NK
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  #17  
Old 19th June 2018, 13:45
Kari Lumppio Kari Lumppio is offline
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Re: Unit code for SAGr 127

Hello!

First I have to say I hate computers and their broken hard disks.

I used to research AGr 127 a lot some ten years ago and this topic is still close to heart.

1./AGr 127 Staffel letter L is result from the reorganisation in 1943. The first and second Staffel were reformed to night harrasement units and later (Nov 1943?) renamed as 1./NSGr 11 and 2./NSGr 11. The third Staffel was left at Tallin as Aufklärer unit. IIRC the few official German documents have the Staffel numeration vice versa to the Estonian sources (memories) which do correspond to the letter "L" though. Which is a fact.

The unit's Ar 95 did indeed fly with Stkz until Autumn 1943 As Matti wrote (Hs 126 changed to unit codes Spring 1944). I used to have large excel-file of the units flights collected from the archive material. Matti and colleagues made much more thorough work somewhat later. I might still have the data, but would need resurrection of a "backup" hard disk.

IIRC one of the AR 95 flew with Stkz in July or even August 1944. Swedish magazine MACH had article of Estonians in one of the last issues (7x, maybe 70 or 71). There is photo of a Ar 95 with Stkz ending +VB (IIRC, caveat!) which I think is the same individual.

I also used to have excel table of Ar 95 Stkz and WNr. Some indivual unit letter codes, too.


Same thing with He 50 codes. 1./NSGr 11 seems to have painted Stkz first letters over replacing them with unit code 3W. The first flights (sea reconnaissance?) in Summer 1943 were flown with Stkz and I believe the change is connected with the reorganization of two Staffels to night harrasement.

I remember talking with a mechanic from 1./NSGr 11 and he did not remember the letter code at all, but "his" plane was red 3 (or 5? I hate computer hard disks, did I say that) with hand held MG (no turret ring) and tail spur (no wheel). Anyway it seems for the users the number was the identification and Stkz etc. were for the clerks.

There is photos available of the AGr 127 / NSGr 11 planes, but usually the published ones are not good enough to see details like black letters on dark green surface. And the originals are all over the planet (as were their now deceased ownwers). Collection of good material would be a major undertaking.

IF anyone knows of any Estonian Lw pilot log book I would be very interested to hear. There are couple of pages of one circluating. They might be copies from Swedish archive (Krighsarkivet) but that is only my personal guess.


Very interesting thread this. Missed it when I was on holidays with family.


Cheers,
Kari

Last edited by Kari Lumppio; 19th June 2018 at 14:14. Reason: brain fart correction
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