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  #11  
Old 13th July 2020, 18:04
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 16 Nov 1944 - Belgium

Nice find Leendert!

What actually was a Ground Support Unit? I cannot find any reference to that in Flying Training and Support Units since 1912 (Air Britain)

How many were they and what did they do that not the regular squadrons did?

Cheers
Stig
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  #12  
Old 13th July 2020, 21:40
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 16 Nov 1944 - Belgium

Stig,
You're right, it's No. 84 Group Support Unit.

Regards,
Leendert
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  #13  
Old 13th July 2020, 21:52
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 16 Nov 1944 - Belgium

Aha Leendert, thanks for getting back with the correct name.

Now I found it. It was a sort of expanded repair unit.
I wonder what the Canadians did to it since it warranted some kind of repair?

Perhaps nothing at all! Somehow it sounds like a "gremlin" aircraft. The Canadians just wanted to get rid of it, the 84th GSU then crash it on a test flight.

Speculation no doubt on my part....but....

Cheers
Stig
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  #14  
Old 14th July 2020, 00:28
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 16 Nov 1944 - Belgium

441S 16-11-44 Engine cut hit tree in circuit and bellylanded nr Knocke FACE 24-12-44.

From -

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/
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  #15  
Old 1st December 2020, 11:37
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 24-Dec-1944 - Belgium

Received accident record card for NH464. Pilot was Sgt. Frank Roberts (1349787). 84 GSU. Ferry flight.
After engine cut due to fuel shortage while in circuit, pilot apparently did not trouble to see if his drop tank was full (which was) so did not switch to that reserve.
Regards,
Leendert
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  #16  
Old 1st December 2020, 12:22
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 16 Nov 1944 - Belgium

Thanks Leendert

Interesting feedback. But wasn't the regular way to use up first the fuel in the drop tank (even if you never dropped it) and then the fuel you had in your wings (or fuselage)?

If so, then he must have forgotten to do so right after take off.

Cheers
Stig
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  #17  
Old 1st December 2020, 16:27
Revi16 Revi16 is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 16 Nov 1944 - Belgium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik View Post
Thanks Leendert

Interesting feedback. But wasn't the regular way to use up first the fuel in the drop tank (even if you never dropped it) and then the fuel you had in your wings (or fuselage)?

If so, then he must have forgotten to do so right after take off.

Cheers
Stig

There are various reasons for a "fuel shortage", it doesn't have to mean that there wasn't fuel in the tanks. The fuel pump may have failed or the carb may have had a problem or it may have been pilot error as well, who knows?

Not sure on the specifics of the Spitfire fuel system, but on some aircraft the fuel in the drop tank is pumped into the main tanks as the main tanks burn down, others can feed fuel directly from drop tank to engine.
In most (if not all) aircraft, takeoff is accomplished on Main Tanks even when carrying drop tanks, Aux tanks, etc..

And the "while in circuit" doesn't give you much time to troubleshoot the problem.
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  #18  
Old 1st December 2020, 17:48
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 16 Nov 1944 - Belgium

Indeed Revi

But in this case the accident reason is given by Leendert.
The drop tank was full, while his main tanks were not.
Had there been any technical problem, the accident card should (presumably) have mentioned that.

Yes I know you take off on your main tanks and then switch over to your aux fuel, hence me saying after take off....

However my main reason for asking was basically to find out how "one did it" when not on any operational mission. In a ferry case like this, the drop tank was probably supposed to be attached after landing as well

Cheers
Stig
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  #19  
Old 1st December 2020, 18:34
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 16 Nov 1944 - Belgium

Reread the written accident report a couple of times more. The more 'fluent' the handwriting, the harder it is to read sometimes... Anyways result for Spitfire and pilot stays the same.

Pilot had not examined the F100 (?) card before signing otherwise he would have known that long range tank was full....
After engine cut he then did not trouble to ascertain if drop tank was filled. Did not remember if warning light showed before engine failure.

Regards,
Leendert
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  #20  
Old 1st December 2020, 18:49
Stephen M. Fochuk Stephen M. Fochuk is offline
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Re: Spitfire NH464 - crashlanding 16 Nov 1944 - Belgium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leendert View Post
Received word from the AHB about NH464. This Spitfire was just one week with 441 (RCAF) Squadron, from 16 Nov till 23 Nov 1944.
Then allocated to No. 84 Ground Support Unit with ultimate accident on 24 Dec 1944.
So no surprise that 441 (RCAF) Squadron ORB doesn't mention NH464 anywhere...

Regards,

Leendert
Yes, strange that it is not mentioned in the 540, and this is most likely due t o the fact that it was not an operational flight, and would have been noted in another form or the investigation file.

Stephen
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