Heinkel 111 H WNr 5306

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hallo again

Since I was doing so great with my He 111 J post, I thought I was going to try my luck with a He 111 H

For some reason I have noted down WNr 5306 as a H-10 with STKZ NN+DM and completely w/o with FFS C 10 on 12.8.1943.
Trying to combine this wisdom with what I have on the 'real' 5306 (a H-2) is not easy (read impossible)

I am not asking you to answer where I did go wrong, but rather please set me straight with regard to STKZ NN+DM which I believe is the 'culprit'

Cheers
Stig

[ju55dk]

NN+DM He 111 H-10 Wnr 5306 with FFS C 19 AND LATER FFS C 22.

Junker

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Junker

The problem is that WNr 5306 was built as a H-2.
Was it converted, and if so when?

Since I also have a large number of reports for WNr 5306 as TQ+NX; LNS 1 (1.1.40-9.40); 2./Aufkl.Gr. 22 (dam 24.10.40); GrKFS 4 (3.42); KGrzbV 5 (4.42); BFS 5 (3.43-11.43) it is a bit hard to fit in the other details you provide and also its complete loss on 12.8.43

Cheers
Stig

[ju55dk]

Hi Stig.

You are right that there is something that don't add up with these 2 Skz. Wnr are not unique.

Junker

[Jim P.]

I have the same issue with 'this' machine. Would the SKZ have been changed if the machine had been rebuilt??

He 111H-2, 5306, n.n., , , 2.(F), 22, , , , , 24-Oct-40, Crashed during taxiing., , Deutschland, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; BoB, T&N, p.694; Mason, p.457, , Lübeck, 35%, H, , ,

He 111H-, 5306?, n.n., , , , KGr.z.b.V. 5, , TQ+NX, TQ+NX, , 06-Apr-42, Attacked twice. Severely damaged in 2nd attack. Notlandung due to damage to both engines. Bf & Bm WIA., Right WNr.? SKZ mismatch with another loss for same WNr., Transportverbände/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #6)-Vol.9; KTB Nr. 1 der KG.z.b.V. 5, , bei Baltinava, 70km südwestlich Ostrow, b, F, Bf Gefr. Gerhard Franke & Bm Uffz. Heinrich Henschen, ,

He 111, 5306?, Hau, vom, , , , Blindflugsch. 5, , TQ+NX, TQ+NX, , 24-May-42, FB entry., SKZ assigned in Nov-39 with Lw.Gr.Nachr.Sch. 1 at Welzow., Polen, FB vom Hau, , Fl.Pl. Semlin, -, H, , ,

He 111H-10, 5306, n.n., , , , Flzg.Führ.Sch. C 10, , NN+DM, NN+DM, , 12-Aug-43, Crashed due to pilot error. Sch Schug killed, Bm and 2nd Sch injured., , Lw.Bfh.Mitte/Deutschland, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/776, Flzg.Unfälle bei Schulen und usw., p.85; BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/783, Flzg.Unfälle bei Schulen und usw., p.79; Salonen via TOCH on 19-Dec-11, , Fürstenwalde, 100%, H, Bm Uffz. Gerhard Zenker, Sch Uffz. Robert Schug & Sch Ogefr. Alex Sperling, ,

[edNorth]

Just a thought, two penny. Not proof but just indication. TQ+ has me think it might be H-3 (and Trainer H-10 at later date) and similar to ATG built some He 111 H-3s with ferry registrations in TT+xx, TU+xx in 1939/1940 period before going "normal Stkz." - These were in 56xx range. There were other Tx+xx in range below - 5396 He 111 TG+KA Wekusta 2 - OPS shot down (100%) by 236 SQ at 1700 hrs, ditching at POS 4850N/1015W 23.09.1940. -Ed

[RolandF]

Sounds reasonable. Looking at hte timeframe a "regular" StKz might have been applied when being rebuilt into a He 111H-10.

Regards
RolandF

[Stig Jarlevik]

Gentlemen, thanks for the responses.

Jim
The situation seems to be even worse than I thought. Will have to check your input vs what I got already.
However (no proof) I doubt the STKZ changed if an airframe was modified, at least not when the modification was as small as in this case.

Ed/Roland
Volker Koos is absolutely certain that WNr 5306 was an ATG built H-2 and as such (if rebuilt) it should be rebuilt as a double stick trainer and designated H-10. As far as I can determine, no Heinkel 111 trainers were built from scratch. They were all modified airframes. I doubt this airframe was first modified into a H-3 and then again into a H-10.

But again I know too little to say anything further in this case.
But please keep on with your suggestions. I truly enjoy all of them

Cheers
Stig

[edNorth]

Difference of H-2 and H-3 was armament fitted AFAIK
not really a conversion, matter of preference

[ju55dk]

Volker Koos is right. See attached LW document.

Junker