Crew of Dornier Do18 wrkn 809, Ku.FL.Gr 2/606 lost 17/10/1939

[JimCorbett1977]

I am seeking confirmation of the crew of Dornier Do18 wrk 809 of Ku.FL.Gr 2/606.

The aircraft was attacked and forced down into the North Sea on 17/10/1939 having been intercepted 50 miles east of Blyth, UK, by Gladiators from 607 Squadron based at RAF Acklington, Northumberland.

In Bill Norman's excellent book 'Broken Eagles 2 - Luftwaffe Losses over Northumberland and Durham' he confirms the crew as follows:

Pilot: Fw. ? Grabbet (POW)
Obs: Oblt. Siegfried Seloga (POW)
W/Op: Unt. Hilmar Grimm (POW)
Mech: Uffz. Kurt Seydel (POW)

The Operational Record Book for 607 Squadron confirms that 4 POW's resulted from the loss of this aircraft and mentions no fatalities.

Further digging confirms that Kurt Seydel was lost the previous night in a Junkers Ju88.

Can anyone confirm the occupants of the above Dornier Do18 and what it's mission was the day it was lost?

Many thanks,

Jim

[Adam]

The aircraft was 8L+DK and was on routine reconnaissance. It had spotted a Grom-class destroyer and following the engagement, force landed at 13.48hrs. According to ObdM records, one man was injured (although it doesn't name names). The crew were taken aboard the destroyer which was subsequently, but unsuccessfully attacked at 15.07hrs by aircraft from 1./406.

According to loss reports, the reason for the loss is stated as flak from the destroyer, not fighters. Moreover, Seydel is listed as being killed (which would support the ObdM notion of one man injured).

[JimCorbett1977]

Thanks Adam,

I have a combat report from 607 Squadron about an attack on a Do18 on this date. The engagement began 50 miles east of Blyth and the Operational Record Book for 607 Squadron confirms it as their first victory.

However, the combat reports don't mention the Dornier crashing, only that once they had ran out of ammo that it was seen heading north east very close to the water. White smoke/steam was seen coming from the engines.

It looks like it ran into further trouble after its initial skirmish with the Gladiators. Seems likely then that Seydel may have died from his injuries on board the Destroyer.

The ORB reads as follows:

"At 12:40 hours on the same day a section of “B” flight, pilots Flt Lt Sample, F/O G.D. Craig and P/O W.H.R. Whitty were ordered to endeavour to contact enemy seaplanes off the coast. This section sighted a flying boat of enemy type about 25 miles out to sea at 13:30 hours; all pilots attacked individually from astern, and although the aircraft (which turned out to be a Dornier Do18) was not immediately destroyed, it was subsequently found by a trawler about 50 to 60 miles from the coast and four of the crew rescued and taken prisoner. Our casualties nil, and thus the squadron scored its first victory of the war simultaneously with its first actual engagement. The section commanded by Flt Lt Sample returned to Acklington at 14:10 hours."

[Seaplanes]

The crew were:
Ob.lt.z.See Siegfried Saloga (B) POW
Fw. Paul Grabbe (F) POW
Ob.Fk.Mat. Hilmar Grimm (Bf) POW
Kurt Seydel (Bw) POW

[Peter Cornwell]

Jim,

I'm afraid that your source for suggesting SEYDEL was a Ju88 crewman lost the previous night is incorrect:

2./KüFlGr. 606 Dornier Do18D-3 (0809). Engine badly damaged in attacks by Gladiators of B Flight, No.607 Squadron, (F/L J. Sample, F/O G.D. Craig, and P/O W.H.R. Whitley) east of Blyth during search mission for missing Ju88 of 2./KG30. Disengaged and retired east but forced to ditch 35 miles east of Berwick 2.00 p.m. BM Uffz Kurt Seydel killed, FF Fw Paul Grabbet and BO Oberlt zur See Siegfried Saloga both captured wounded, BF Oberfunkmaat Hilmar Grimm captured unhurt. Aircraft 8L+DK 100% write-off.
The survivors were rescued by the Polish destroyer 'Grom'. Wreckage thought to be this aircraft was located by S4+CK of 2./KüFlGr.406 some 85 miles east of Hartlepool on 22 October. A Junkers Jumo 205 engine recovered from the sea 30 miles north-east of the Tyne was said to have originated from this aircraft and displayed in the North East Aircraft Museum at Sunderland.

[JimCorbett1977]

Many thanks everyone for the replies.

I will endeavour to search for the Interrogation reports for the surviving crew when I go to the National Archives, it might fill in some of the blanks, i.e. how much damage was sustained in the Gladiator attack, whether Seydel was killed in this attack or the subsequent attacked by the destroyer which eventually forced it down.

I have obtained the death certificate for Seydel but all it confirms is that he died as the result of a gunshot wound in the thorax and the time is given as unknown and location is given as at sea. His death was registered at the Royal Navy Hospital at Port Edgar.

Can anyone confirm the markings this Do18 would have carried, in particular the upper surfaces and wing tips?

[Seaplanes]

This Do 18D-3 of 2./606 W.Nr. 809 carried the unit code 8L+DK. The crew names specified in my eartlier message is those listed in KTB for October 1939 by General der Luftwaffe beim Oberkommando der Marine.

[JimCorbett1977]

Thanks Seaplanes for confirming the crew listing.

The combat report of the Gladiators describes the colour scheme of the upper surfaces of the Do18.

I'm just curious to know if they match the scheme carried by aircraft belonging to Ku.FL.Gr 2/606

Jim

[Peter Cornwell]

You may be disappointed with what is on file at Kew under AIR40 regarding this incident. I only have the attached on file.

[Chris Goss]

I believe it was too early for detailed intelligence reports?