He 111 from KG 55 shot down

[landser88]

To Matti,
one can no say enough thanks for your kind help. Great!

To Paul: very useful infos about the exactly places of losses.
And really interesting add.

Miro

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by landser88

To Paul: very useful infos about the exactly places of losses.
And really interesting add.

You are welcome, Miro! And thanks to Matti, as always, his presence on the forum is invaluable.

I have stumbled upon an interesting article online about the partisan mining on aircraft at Seschinskaya. This Russian-language article by Oleg Kaminsky is somewhat celebratory in tone and does not cite its sources, but it has interesting information about possible German aircraft losses caused by the magnetic mines. The article is from 2013, here is the link - https://www.proza.ru/2013/11/08/1490 .

As and when I have a moment, I will extract the mentions of German losses from that article, these may be of interest to forum members. After writing this post, I noticed that Oleg Kaminsky is a member of this forum, his forum name is Urusut. See one of his posts, with another one of his articles in Russian, at http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...352#post223352 . I assume Oleg can clarify what sources he used for his article about Seschinskaya.

Regards,

Paul

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello gentlemen,

WNr.8318 (28.May.43) crashed due to motor failure 20 km SW Azov on return flight.
Mitrach, Preukschat and Ziebolz had remained in the crash place due to major injuries, became POW 29.May.
Borchert and Gasch had tried to cross Azov Sea in inflatable boat but were seized also 29.May.

WNr.160424 (11.Jun.43) has tried to bomb the bomb depot (GAS-2011) but was downed by the depot guard (1 avia-MG BS and 4 ex-German MG34). The whole crew KIA, the plane crashed in the close proximity of bomb depot.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

WNr.8318 (28.May.43) crashed due to motor failure 20 km SW Azov on return flight.
Borchert and Gasch had tried to cross Azov Sea in inflatable boat but were seized also 29.May.

WNr.160424 (11.Jun.43) has tried to bomb the bomb depot (GAS-2011) but was downed by the depot guard (1 avia-MG BS and 4 ex-German MG34). The whole crew KIA, the plane crashed in the close proximity of bomb depot.

Thank you for the additional information, Andrey!

Did aircraft WNr.8318 crash somewhere near Кру́глое (english: Krugloe) coordinates 47°00'N 39°14'E in Rostov Oblast, Russia? It is just 35 kilometres from there to Бессергеновка (Bessergenovka) on the northern shore of Taganrog Bay, which was still under German control at that time, as far as I understand. Borchert and Gasch must have thought they had a good chance to make it across the bay.

Was the головной авиационный склад (GAS) protected by anything other than the five machine-guns? WNr.160424 must have been flying at very low altitude to come within the effective range of these weapons.

Regards,

Paul

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

Did aircraft WNr.8318 crash somewhere near Кру́глое (english: Krugloe) coordinates 47°00'N 39°14'E in Rostov Oblast

No, it was near Stefanidin Dar (south coast of the eastern part of Taganrog Bay), on Soviet-controlled territory.

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

Was the головной авиационный склад (GAS) protected by anything other than the five machine-guns?

No. The "depot" was simply the bomb piles in the forest near railroad.

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

WNr.160424 must have been flying at very low altitude to come within the effective range of these weapons.

Yes, He111 made two low-level runs and even tried to neutralize MG-fire by it's own MGs (several hits in breastwork were found out). According to crew's bodies checkout, two crewmen had the bullet hits.

Regards,
Andrey

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

No, it was near Stefanidin Dar (south coast of the eastern part of Taganrog Bay), on Soviet-controlled territory.

Paul, sorry, heedlessly read your question. Krugloe and Stefanidin Dar are in the almost same place.

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

No, it was near Stefanidin Dar (south coast of the eastern part of Taganrog Bay), on Soviet-controlled territory.

Paul, sorry, heedlessly read your question. Krugloe and Stefanidin Dar are in the almost same place.

No. The "depot" was simply the bomb piles in the forest near railroad.

Yes, He111 made two low-level runs and even tried to neutralize MG-fire by it's own MGs (several hits in breastwork were found out). According to crew's bodies checkout, two crewmen had the bullet hits.

No problem, Andrey, my own post should have been clearer, thank you for elaborating on your initial information. So the crash location, as it appears on modern maps, was Стефанидинода́р (english: Stefanidinodar) coordinates 47°01'N 39°11'E in Rostov Oblast, Russia . I am putting this here for the sake of non-Russian speakers, of course.

The men at the depot were lucky that none of the bombs lying in the open were hit! Very strange behaviour by the Heinkel crew given that they should have been well aware of the dangers of Russian ground fire by this late stage of the war.

Regards,

Paul

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

Very strange behaviour by the Heinkel crew given that they should have been well aware of the dangers of Russian ground fire by this late stage of the war.
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Sudden low-level attacks were usual for counter-railroad night units. But 2nd run against the same target was a pure error, of course. And June night wasn't very dark.
Interesting, how many combat sorties made the crew of WNr.160424 before.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

Sudden low-level attacks were usual for counter-railroad night units. But 2nd run against the same target was a pure error, of course. And June night wasn't very dark.
Interesting, how many combat sorties made the crew of WNr.160424 before.

You are right, Andrey. Perhaps the crew was confused over the nature of their target. June nights are not very dark in southern Russia, but identifying ground objects on the steppe with no artificial lighting would still be difficult.

From the information in Doug and Larry's incredible Officers Career Summaries, it would appear that the pilot was quite experienced, see below:

DIESSELHORST, Friedrich. (DOB: 19.07.17). (DKG). 01.03.42 promo to Oblt. 22.03.43 Oblt., awarded the Ehrenpokal. 30.04.43 Oblt., awarded DKG, pilot in KG 55. 06.43 Oblt., in III./KG 55 (to 11.06.43 MIA). 11.06.43 Oblt. in 14.(Eis)/KG 55, MIA - He 111 H-16 (G1+NY) along the rail line Kantsmirowky-Rossosch.

Do you know whether these rail attacks had much success, Andrey? Russian-language sources put much more emphasis on the disruption caused to the German rail network by ADD raids, so it is interesting to see whether the Luftwaffe's activities on the other side of the lines had much impact.

Warm regards,

Paul

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

From the information in Doug and Larry's incredible Officers Career Summaries, it would appear that the pilot was quite experienced, see below:

DIESSELHORST, Friedrich. (DOB: 19.07.17). (DKG). 01.03.42 promo to Oblt. 22.03.43 Oblt., awarded the Ehrenpokal. 30.04.43 Oblt., awarded DKG, pilot in KG 55. 06.43 Oblt., in III./KG 55 (to 11.06.43 MIA). 11.06.43 Oblt. in 14.(Eis)/KG 55, MIA - He 111 H-16 (G1+NY) along the rail line Kantsmirowky-Rossosch.

It seems overconfidence had played a low-down trick with him.

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

Do you know whether these rail attacks had much success, Andrey?

The banal answer is "They inflicted some damages and disruptions, but weren't a big problem". I'll try to answer less banal some days later, maybe in separate topic.

Warm regards,
Andrey