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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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Discrepancy re: Me 262 A-2a WNr. 170016 9K+HL
Good afternoon,
The following quotations are from Jan Horn, Das Flurschaden-Geschwader, (2010). P.161: "11 August 1944 … ...Nachdem Fw. Lauer die Me 262 A-1a [sic] ("Schwarzes H"; Werk-Nr. 170016) in Lechfeld ubernommen hat … … 16 August 1944 … … Mit der Me 262 A-2a (9K+HL; Werk-Nr. 170016) startet Major Wolfgang Schenck … zu unbekannter Uhrzeit in Lechfeld zur Leistungmessung. Dabei er in 4,000 m. Hohe nur ein Geschwindigkeit von 690 km/h. …" P. 162: "22 August 1944 … ...Ofw. Wieczorek startet 15:30 Uhr mit der Me 262 ("Schwarzes H") in Lechfeld zu einem Uberland-Orientierungsflug. Auf dem Ruckflug entwickelt sich ein Triebwerksbrand. Mit nur einem laufenden Triebwerk landet er um 16:10 Uhr wieder in Lechfeld. …" P. 133: "24 August 1944 ... Das Einsatzkommando I./KG 51 meldet dem Korps-Ingenieur des IX. Fliegerkorps am Morgan dieses Tages. ... … Flugzeuge einsatzbereit 3 … Starkezungang: Vier Me 262, Werk-Nr.: 130 182, 170 002, 170 004, 170 016 … Am gleichen Abend meldet das Einsatzkommando I./KG 51 an das IX. Fliegerkorps: … Flugzeuge einsatzbereit 4 … 9K+DL 130 182; 9K+GL 170 002; 9K+IL 170 004; 9K+HL 170 016" My question is: Was it feasible for an aircraft that landed at Lechfeld at 16:10 hrs. on 22 August 1944 with an engine fire to be present at Juvincourt on the morning of 24 August 1944? best regards, Jim .. |
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Re: Discrepancy re: Me 262 A-2a WNr. 170016 9K+HL
I can't answer your question although I suppose that an engine change was possible within 36 hours. I have these references to the aircraft though:
CX/MSS/T290/22 XL 8304 ((1)) Two notes in a clip:- Signed ops detachment KABEK ((KG)) 51, stamped 1530/26/8: Me 262 A-1 strength return. A/c 4 2 2 0 0 0 Crews 5 4 1 0 0 0 1 under 12) 1 under 11). Crews to strength, 1. DL 130182, GL 170002, IL 170004, HL 170016 ((2)) Strength return of 27/8 signed (B% KABEK) ((KG)) 51, stamped 1500/27/8: A/c 4 3 2 0 0 0 Crews 5 4 1 0 0 0 1 under 12) NOTES: (1) ((2)) Seen by source in a file marked Fliegerkorps IX – Luftflotte 3. Comparison with ((1)) indicates same unit concerned. Compare T288/37 for re-equipment of KG 51 with Me 262. (2) 130182, 170002, 170004 and 170016 presumably works numbers of the four a/c shewn as total a/c. If DL, GL, IL and HL are a/c markings, these a/c would belong to the 3rd Staffel. CX/MSS/R. 292 (C) 33. Dated 24/8: ((1)) Addressed Corps Engineer, issued very early:- Me 262 ((a/c)) 4 ((total)) 3 ((serviceable)) 1 0 0 0 ((crews)) 4 4 9 – 14 no report. 1) To strength, 4 Me 262, works nos. 1301812, 170002, 17004, 170016. ((2)) Issued evening:- Strength return. Me 262: ((a/c)) 4 4 0 0 0 0 ((crews)) 4 4 0 0 0 0 DL 130182, GL 170002, IL, 170004, HL 170016. NOTE: Both taken from a Fliegerkorps IX file. Cf. MSS/T 290/22 for similar return from Ops. Detachment of K51 on 27/8 showing the same works numbers and markings. the above confirms the previous suggestion these 4 a/c are Me 262. CX/MSS/R. 293 (C) 10. Source saw copies of three returns ((1)) Dated 25/8:- Strength return, Me. 262 A1: a/c serv. 4 3 1 0 0 0 0 crews ready 4 3 1 under 11 DL 13(figure illegible)182, GL 170002, IL 17000+, HL 170016 |
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Re: Discrepancy re: Me 262 A-2a WNr. 170016 9K+HL
Hi Nick,
Thank you for the quick reply. It is obvious from your three ULTRA intercepts that WNr. 170016 9K+HL was present at Juvincourt on 24, 25, 26 and 27 August 1944. So either the engine was replaced quickly or Wieczorek's "Schwarzes H" was not 170016. So far I have not been able to find reference to a "Schwarzes H" after 22 August 1944. Thank you again, Jim Last edited by Karoband; 23rd February 2019 at 02:30. |
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