Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11th August 2020, 23:28
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,983
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

Thanks Ted

Yes I can read that from the link Revi sent. Interesting one can reach that page but nothing else....

Revi

Yes I agree, two ground loops (severe ones) at the same day is not impossible, so they are probably not connected after all.

However I still think the twin P-40 is a hoax....

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12th August 2020, 01:08
Revi16 Revi16 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,069
Revi16 is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

I agree, it never flew and I'm not really sure what the point of it was? The Air Force certainly didn't ask for it.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12th August 2020, 15:23
Buckeye30's Avatar
Buckeye30 Buckeye30 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bedford, England
Posts: 286
Buckeye30 is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

For the record, accidents in Iceland by year and serial. Quite a few P-40Cs from that batch.

Nick
https://stridsminjar.is/en/a-list-of...-sites-by-year
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 13th August 2020, 15:07
Buckeye30's Avatar
Buckeye30 Buckeye30 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bedford, England
Posts: 286
Buckeye30 is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

I think I agree with Stig's "hoax"; a comment on "Curtiss aircraft 1917-1948" by 2 respected authors Dean and Hagedorn on the P-40 twin.
.....were unable to uncover any info on the "Twin P-40" beyond the single photo, and state their opinion that it was a hoax, created for unknown reasons , from a short-tail H87 fuselage, P-40D canopy and P-40F cowlings, one of which features a sharkmouth. They also agree that the serial is spurious. The book has a much larger and clearer reproduction of the photo than the Putnam book and you can clearly see how crudely it is put together. The when and where it was built are both unknown.
The serial 41-13456 can't be right as the rounded rear canopy glazing is P-40D / E style so this isn't a C; maybe they just picked "3456".
The photo of 456 in Iceland must be after May 1942 as it has the revised star insignia ( no red centre). Also the Hudson next to it also has the new RAF cocarde , post May. The sharkmouth is on the right side of the starboard nacelle.
If 456 had an accident on August 1 1941 it couldn't have loaded on WASP on 24 July 1941.


Nick

Last edited by Buckeye30; 13th August 2020 at 16:51.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13th August 2020, 17:07
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,983
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

Thanks Nick

I take it you mean Curtiss Fighter Aircraft etc? That was the only one I could find when I googled your title.

Beside their thoughts about this "mock-up" is the rest of the book any good?
Something you can say "just buy it"?
Still available so I might give it a try...

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 14th August 2020, 00:01
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,587
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

Just a small issue.
The photo ( Post 5 ) in Iceland shows "426" not "456".
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 14th August 2020, 22:21
edNorth edNorth is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,020
edNorth is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

Strange thread posts by "Buckey30", really strange in my opinion, as not asked for by in thread - Alex, yes, lots of issues!

Correct is the 33 FS (previously 33 PS) never had Red noses or spinners whilst in Iceland. No photos show this but colour photos are older 8 PG aircraft/period. Period.
There were more than these 30 P-40C in Iceland, along with P-39D, P-40K and P-40N. This will be all in my book(s), in prep since 1990s (!) serials are traced and verified.
And 33rd had practiced a flyoff from a carrier in Carib area 1940 (pictures for these two separate operations are often mixed into one, including OSPREY books).
The 113426 had suffered several accidents when snapped 17. april 1943 (note no insignia on top of left wing) - Yes, P-398F 42-12596 #35 was the 50 FS c/o aircraft, but also see the 19 Group RAF Wellington and Fairey Battle target tug on airports other side. RAF Hudson at right is likely a ferry A-29 with FKxxx serial (note Martin top turret).

stridsminjar.is (wartime remains) website is run by "amatörs" (i.e. non a/c history experts) but its their right to have it this way - not corrected by research - misinfo or roumours of this period are stated as "facts" on that web - But not everything was recorded properly and still old errors are copied, again and again.

- Eggert

Last edited by edNorth; 15th August 2020 at 15:34. Reason: clarifying Red noses not carried in Iceland
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 14th August 2020, 23:28
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,983
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

Ed

I agree to your points, but I think Nick actually liked to broaden the issue a bit, or perhaps he just saw/read things a bit wrong. We all noticed that! No big deal.

Also the P-40C was after all a rather rare model with less than 200 built. Thus an interesting aircraft, so I liked it. BTW it seems you as well like to "widen" the present subject, so he is in good company... (and I like that too!)

The Iceland connection is interesting since the US presence was before they actually entered WW2 themselves.

33PS or FS? Well it depends on the actual date each photo you can provide was taken. According USAAF official sources (quoted by Maurer Maurer) the change over was 15 May 1942. By then the unit had been in Iceland some 9 months.

Your book about "Iceland" (WW 2 period only perhaps?) sounds incredibly interesting. I hope we don't have to wait another 30 years for it to be published? At least I will not be around that long....

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 15th August 2020, 16:02
edNorth edNorth is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,020
edNorth is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

Stig, I generally agree your comment. Been hard at revising but surprisingly very few additions to my 1991 Flugsaga book (1939-1941 part was out that year, try eBay) has it PS on arrival. My resoning is USAAC became AAF June 1941and some say changed Pursuit to Fighter then. But the AAC/AAF was very old (Army) fashioned and term lingered on, and Officially changed later (15 May 1942). But the 33rd Squadron (detached from 8 PG) was integrated into US Army, Iceland Base Command in September 1941 (and AAF was not in "over" command but in "under" command situation, in co-op with RAF Iceland (CC)) as US Army "ran the show" here. Most sources refer to it as 33rd Squadron only. But Armchair Generals will undouptedly continiu dissagree but thats quite OK. -Eggert
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 15th August 2020, 18:02
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,983
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: P-40 C service history of one a/c

Ooops Ed

Never realised you already published it.....29 years ago.
Checked the internet/Amazon and so on. No luck unfortunately.

On the other hand I do have five other books covering the civil side of things in Iceland up to 1941

With regard to aircraft, 1940-41 must have been a "shock" to the population.
Going from almost zero to many 100s, many just transiting through of course, but still.

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Feldpostnummer mikevanv Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 27th January 2018 20:56
Fw Walter Meudtner I(3)/JG51 26.9.40 Service History Wanted Mr Schmitt Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 6 20th July 2015 13:34
Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945 Juha Allied and Soviet Air Forces 28 8th October 2009 16:32
I./KG 40 mjbollinger Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 12 15th June 2009 00:36
The correct codes for the a/c flown by Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs during 1940 Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 17th January 2006 05:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net