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  #1  
Old 18th October 2009, 18:44
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

Hello,

I'm working with photos of Bf110C 2N+IP at "Quoeux" AF France during the Battle of Britain. One photos says "August" (1940) on the back. This aircraft carried 11 victory tabs in white on the fin, the 4th one being marked with a Dutch insignia. The first 3 and the following 4 are either British or French. I'm trying to put a pilot's ID to these photos. My problem is that the known victory info for 6./ZG1, by the BoB 9./ZG76, does not suggest any pilot with 11 victories by August-September 1940. I originally thought that this was going to turn out to be the Gr Kdr., Hptm. Rolf Kaldrack, who did have 11 victories by the end of the BoB, but the plane codes seem to throw cold water on that idea. Kaldrack came out of 7 Staffel, not 9 Staffel.

So, who could this pilot be?

Regards,

Larry
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  #2  
Old 18th October 2009, 23:54
thenelm thenelm is offline
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Re: 9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

Isn't this Jabs?
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  #3  
Old 19th October 2009, 06:22
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Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
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Re: 9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

Jabs is a member of 6./ZG76, not 6./ZG1>9./ZG76.

Larry:

G.Tonne?
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Old 19th October 2009, 18:38
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: 9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

Hello,

As Evgeny says, this is not Jabs. The code is 2N+IP, not M8+IP, which late in the BoB was the code on Jabs' a/c. This is definitely someone else.

Regards,
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Old 19th October 2009, 20:04
rob van den nieuwendijk rob van den nieuwendijk is offline
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Re: 9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

Hello Larry,

Is it Rolf Hermichen?? He belonged to 6./ZG 1, four victories during western campaign. On 5 July 40 6./ZG 1 became 9./ZG 76 and he claimed more victories. Also see:

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/hermichen.html

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Old 19th October 2009, 20:22
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Re: 9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

Larry:

The pilot of that a/c should be among the personal of Gruppe. Isnt it?

So:

We have a list (or could compile it easy) a list of POST-BoB pilots of Gruppe.
We have a list of PRE-BoB pilots of Gruppe
We have personnel losses entryes for BoB period.
What do we have not - list of pilots who entered Gruppe during BoB.

Lets use elimination method.

I write Gruppe instead of Staffel because this pilot could be not only transferred from other unit or even a novice pilot from Zerstorer Schule, but he could be moved from/to other Staffel inside the Gruppe.

Personally, I vote for Oblt. G.Tonne, as his a/c S9+IC is known in 1942, and "I" could somewhat of his "personal" character.

I dont think that pilot could be transferred from other (non-ZG1) regiment, because as far as I know only ZG1 had fights with Dutch AF.

Among top aces of Gruppe:

Kaldrack was Gr.Kdr., so he does not fit.

Viedebannt - I have no info for his early claims, to the end of 1942 his score stood at 23.
Kutcha - he dont fit, because he had only 8 claims in 1939-40. #9 and further are Doviet a/c claimed.
Hermichen dont fit, as he had only 7 claims with Staffel to the end of 1940. But this is aug.40 and already 11 claims.
G.Tonne - need to research, but his score to end of 1942 stood 20+.

The question is: what was that first three claims, if II./ZG1 saw first serious combats (and claims) only on 9 may, against the Dutch!? Only 1 claim known in Poland, and 1(or 2) - on 18 dec over Wilhelmshaven. How the pilot could s/d 3 enemyies before he met (and could claim) Dutch a/c in may 1940?
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Old 19th October 2009, 20:24
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: 9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

Rob,

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, this a/c was photographed in the Pas-de-Calaise area of France about Aug/Sept. 1940, with 11 victory tabs registered on the fin. Whoever it was does have a 9./ZG76 code on the a/c, 2N+IP. His 4th victory has a Dutch a/c symbol above it, which probably indicates that it was shot down during the first two or three days of the WC. The fact that there are three French or British symbols above the first three victory bars indicates someone who scored victories prior to the WC, probably not even in a Bf110, but likely in a Bf109. Some of the victory bars could be attributed to a gunner. We are missing so much info about II./ZG1 - III./ZG76 victories during 1940 that is a real hinderance to getting a good fix on this guy.

More clues, but no resolution to this mystery.

Regards,
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Old 19th October 2009, 20:40
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Re: 9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

We know, that during formation of Gruppe, during Polish campaign, Gruppe had only 4-5 crews for each Staffel. So, could it be fulfilled with transferred Bf109 pilots, as for example Kutcha (former 5./JG77 pilot) joined 5./ZG1? Then it will be the only reason why that pilot could claim 3 vics before 9.5.40 - during "Stange war". Do You suppose he was among JGr102 or JGr152 for that period?
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Last edited by Evgeny Velichko; 19th October 2009 at 21:29.
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Old 20th October 2009, 21:46
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Re: 9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

Larry:

Oblt. Gunther Tonne claimed Douglas 8A on 10.05.40, but didnt fit with this 2N+IP because it was his 1st victory, and he also got Swiss claim (also as Kutscha and Lutter)...

We must look among losslists of III./ZG76 and aces of JG regiments of western campaign. I think Bf109 pilots are much better researched at this moment.
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Last edited by Evgeny Velichko; 21st October 2009 at 16:36.
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  #10  
Old 21st October 2009, 00:00
Pieter H Pieter H is offline
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Re: 9./ZG76 Bf110 pilot during BoB with 11 victories?

Larry, all,

According my database II./ZG1, although very active over the Netherlands during the first 4 days of the campaign, actually only claimed/scored dutch a/c on the early morning of May 10 over Ypenburg.
These were the slow Douglas 8A3N's of which 8 were shot down and/or 3 D21's. The complexity is that 3 II./ZG1 pilots claimed an aircraft (Uffz Lutter, Fw Kuscha (2) and Lt Tonne) but next to that three as Gruppenabschuss. So in fact it could have been almost every II./ZG1 pilot.
I'm afraid the Dutch claim therefore does not help in the identification.

Regards, Pieter
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