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  #151  
Old 10th December 2005, 02:28
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George Hopp George Hopp is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Well, remember that the Navy got the word that any a/c flying towards Sicily should be considered an Allied a/c. Any a/c flying out from Sicily was to be considered an enemy a/c. Or is what I repeated just an urban myth? It's hard to believe that anyone would issue such an order, but I have found that it's foolish to disregard even the most stupid-sounding stories.
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  #152  
Old 10th December 2005, 03:01
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George Hopp George Hopp is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Since all armies were notorious for their lousy a/c recognition, what faith can we put in the accuracy of the a/c mentioned in the excellent reports as given us by 6-nifty-fifties?
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  #153  
Old 10th December 2005, 08:40
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi TonyK

I believe Luftwaffe losses during Operation Bodeplatte must constitute the sad and tragic record. My assessment of losses during the Sicily campaign will appear in Volume Two of 'Blue-on-Blue in WWII' which will cover ME and FE incidents. However, please note thatVolume One is still being worked on, as you are undoubtedly aware! I would suggest offhand that your figures for losses re 10/7/43 (Sicily) are fairly accurate.

Cheers
Brian
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  #154  
Old 10th December 2005, 16:42
Tundra Tundra is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Futher to the inpuy from6 Nifty Fifties

January 1944
USAAF P-40 Warhawks accidentally strafed an RAF airfield near Trigno, Italy. Amount of damage and casualties if any were unspecified. See p.111, Bickers, Richard Townshend. Friendly Fire: Accidents in Battle from Ancient Greece to the Gulf War (London: Leo Cooper, 1994).


A quote from Robin Browns book on 112 Sqn RAF
Edited for clarity

On the 29th of April, 1944, Cutella airfield home to 112 Sqn was straffed by four USAAF P-47 Thunderbolts returning from an escort mission for Liberators and Fortresses bombing near Weiner Neustadh. Making landfall near Vasto the Americans, who were uncertain of their position, saw a Warhawk landing at Cutella. This machine carried a white spinner, unlike the normal red spinners of the RAF machines in the area at that time, and the Americans thought it was a Bf109, They came in line abreast, and opened fire. Three aircraft belonging to 260 and 450 Sqns were damaged and WO Roland C. Glew, DFM, of 293 Air-Sea Rescue Sqn detachment, was killed. Glew, who piloted a Walrus, was married and the father of three children, but what made this costly mistake particularly upsetting was that Glew had recently rescued a number of American aircrew who had ditched in the Adriatic, Later when the CO of the thunderbolt Group, which was based at Foggia, flew in to offer his apologies he was nearly lynched. All references to the incident where hushed up and personnel were forbidden tp write home about it and there is no mention of it in 112 Sqn records.



Others involving 112 Sqn aircraft

Kittyhawk Mk. I AK694/ GA Y, Sgt Cedric Don Young, 411490 RNZAF, 15/9/42, A/C shot down by own AA fire over point 878282, destroyed Homuth, pilot badly burned, 64th hospital stay did not return to 112 Sqn

31/10/40
Gladiator I, serial N/A,Plt Off Richard Alvin"Acky" Acworth,DFC, 40486 RAF, destroyed in collision in combat Mersa Matruh collided with E R Smith both had to bale out

Gladiator Mk I, 2/LT E R Smith SAAF, "C" Flight pilot, do not know his service number, A/C destroyed in combat collision Mersa Matruh collided with Acworth both baled out

Cheers Robert
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  #155  
Old 11th December 2005, 12:36
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

An interesting story:

Source : "Journal of combat missions page3.htm" B-17 96th BG
Extrait Mission No. 15 -- Emden, Germany December 11, 1943


On December 11, we made our second raid on the submarine base at Emden, my fifteenth mission, with more than 500 bombers participating. There was a very strong headwind as we left our home base. The group ahead lost three B-17s before we reached the French coast, and lost five more after that. We lost no ships from our group, although one crew was very thankful to be able to make it back home. One of our crews in the high squadron had a malfunctioning bomb rack which delayed release of its bombs. One of its bombs dropped onto the wing of an airplane under it, and stayed there. The pilot flew the plane gingerly enough that he was able to return to base safely with it on his wing. The following day, we were aroused at 12:30 AM for a mission somewhere, but fortunately the mission was scrubbed before we even reached the Operations shack. View related newspaper article

Source: http://www.chez.com/franckruffino/My...Victory_19.htm

Someone also told me yesterday on a forum that the Japanese AA fire at Midway shot down in the morning two US aircraft and one A6M2 Zero, no other details.

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  #156  
Old 11th December 2005, 20:25
Tundra Tundra is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

http://www.myisp.net.au/~aldrich/450/herrett.html


31st October 1942:
More escorting for "Baltimores" over the Fuka 'drome. Shots were exchanged with some ME109's but no damage was done to us. Twelve of our "Kitty's" did a long-range sweep after lunch. Ten returned.
"J" with Sergeant Reid aboard was attacked by two ME109's and went down in flames near Sollum. The two attackers fell to the guns of Flt Lt. Law and Sergeant Borthwick.
The CO [Flt Lt Williams] whilst straffing an enemy camp was accidently shot down by Sgt. Harrison. He crash landed in rough country and was seen to get out of his machine. The ground was too rough to effect an immediate rescue.
Ammo. dumps, tents, transport and railway sidings were straffed for the rest of the day. No.112 Squadron shot down eight enemy aircraft today - well done.
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  #157  
Old 11th December 2005, 22:30
Six Nifty .50s Six Nifty .50s is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyK
In today's Washington Post newspaper (12/8/05) is an Obituary for Lt. Gen. William Yarborough (92 years old) and it comments that he was a battilion commander who encountered one of war's grimmest task, friendly fire. During the invasion of Sicily on the night of July 10, 1943 at least 23 Air Transport planes (C-47s) loaded with airborne troops were shot down by US Navy ships and land AA fire who had been firing at retreating Lutftwaffe aircraft. I've done a little research and seen varying reports of up to 37 total Allied aircraft downed that night by friendly fire, with up to 400 troops as casaulties.
One of the most notorious friendly fire accidents of all time, but it could have been worse. It's my understanding that U.S. Navy ships did not do all the shooting from the seaward side; they were mixed together with other Allied ships that also opened fire on the C-47s.

However, '400 casualties' or anything close to that number is probably an exaggeration. Of the 23 transports known to be shot down in error, 17 transports were hit after they had dropped their paratroopers. One cause for inflated loss estimates is that the carrier planes (and the parachutists) were widely dispersed because of the AA fire. Many of the troops were initially reported missing, but turned up later.
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  #158  
Old 15th December 2005, 20:56
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Tundra, Six Fifty and Laurent - thanks for the latest. I'm gathering enough information to write a book!!!

Cheers
Brian
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  #159  
Old 15th December 2005, 21:02
Tundra Tundra is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra
http://www.myisp.net.au/~aldrich/450/herrett.html


31st October 1942:
More escorting for "Baltimores" over the Fuka 'drome. Shots were exchanged with some ME109's but no damage was done to us. Twelve of our "Kitty's" did a long-range sweep after lunch. Ten returned.
"J" with Sergeant Reid aboard was attacked by two ME109's and went down in flames near Sollum. The two attackers fell to the guns of Flt Lt. Law and Sergeant Borthwick.
The CO [Flt Lt Williams] whilst straffing an enemy camp was accidently shot down by Sgt. Harrison. He crash landed in rough country and was seen to get out of his machine. The ground was too rough to effect an immediate rescue.
Ammo. dumps, tents, transport and railway sidings were straffed for the rest of the day. No.112 Squadron shot down eight enemy aircraft today - well done.
40652 RNZAF Squadron Leader John Edwin Ashley Williams, DFC, happened while serving with 450 Sqdn, he was a former member of 112 Sqdn RAF


Williams was born in Wellington on May 6 1919. He joined the RAF in January 1938 to take up a short service commission.
He is believed to have served with 601 Squadron before being posted to the Middle East, where he flew at different periods with 112, 94 and 260 Squadrons.
In June 1942 Wiliams joined 450 Squadron in the Western Desert as a flight commander. On the 18th, leading his flight over Gambut, he shot down a Bf 109. On July 5 he destroyed a Ju 88.
Leading the squadron over the El Alamein positions on September 12 1942 Williams destroyed a Ju 87, probably a second and damaged a third. Later in the month, during a sortie against the enemy airfield at Daba, Williams shot down a Ju 88.
In October 1942 Williams was awarded the DFC and took command of the squadron. He led it during the Battle of El Alamein. On October 31 he made a forced landing behind German lines and was captured.
Williams was in Stalag Luft 3 camp at Sagan in Germany in March 1944. He took part in the Great Escape and was one of fifty men executed by the Gestapo on March 29. (One of 2 , 112 Sqn Pilots to have met that fate) 40652 S/L John E A Williams DFC, Australian, born 6-May-1919, 450 Sqdn, PoW 31-Oct-1942, recaptured near Reichenberg, murdered 29-Mar-1944 by Lux, cremated at Brux Gestapo Chief Dr Wilhelm Scharpwinkel was masquerading as a Lt Hagamann in the No 6 Hospital at Breslau when Frau Gerda Zembrodt, corroborated by Klaus Lonsky, saw Russian officers remove him at gunpoint. During the enquiry into the murders, the Russians refused to co-operate with the Allied investigation, although after much prodding they allowed Scharpwinkel to make a statement, in Moscow, during August and September 1946. Soon afterwards, Scharpwinkel disappeared and although reported dead by the Russians on 17-Oct-1947, was believed to have found a high position in the Soviet administration. He is almost certain to have died by now.
He and his associate Lux murdered Cross, Casey, Wiley, Leigh, Pohe and Hake. The next day Lux executed Humphries, McGill, Swain, Hall, Langford, Evans, Valenta, Kolanowski, Stewart and Birkland. The day after that, he executed Kiewnarski, Pawluk, Wernham and Skanzikas. On April 6th, Lux murdered Grisman, J E Williams, Milford, Street and McGarr. Long followed soon after. Lux is also believed to have killed Tobolski and Krol, who vanished in the same area as the others. Lux, with at least twenty-seven murders on his soul, died in the fighting around Breslau at the end of the war. Gunn, killed at Breslau, is likely to have been another of their victims

Credited with five victories, Williams also received a Mention in Dispatches.
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  #160  
Old 18th December 2005, 18:49
shooshoobaby shooshoobaby is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

I have details regarding Mosquito shot down by P - 51s on the August 6,44 Shuttle Mission. let me know if interestd.
Mike
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