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  #1  
Old 29th February 2012, 05:27
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Oblt Hans Schmid and ZG52

Hi Guys

I./ZG52 is one of those obscure(to say the least) units. Wilhelm Lessmann is supposed to have made six claims with them, and Hans Schmid seven!(plus eight more with II./ZG2!?) Some for Hartmann Grasser?

I./ZG52 seems to become II./ZG2 in around July 1940!

Known dates of claims are:-

Hans Schmid 10th May 1940 unknown
Hans Schmid 11th May 1940 unknown
Werner Hoffmann 24th May 1940 Hurricane U/C
Werner Hoffmann 24th May 1940 Spitfire 1st
Hans Schmid 27th May 1940 Hurricane(attributed to II./ZG52, which I don't think ever existed)

Schmid went on to be a successful nightfighter pilot with I./NJG100, he had four well documented claims in 1944:-

3./NJG100 5th April 1944 U-2 2330 hrs
1./NJG100 6th July 1944 Il-4 0024hrs
1./NJG100 7th July 1944 Il-4 0017hrs
1./NJG100 7th July 1944 Il-4 0043hrs

And four alleged claims during 1945:-

I./NJG100 19th/20th January 1945 Il-4
I./NJG100 21st/22nd March 1945 Il-4
I./NJG100 17th/18th April 1945 Il-4
I./NJG100 19th/20th April 1945 Il-4

Does anybody have any more information on this unit, or on Hans Schmid himself? Seems very strange if his alleged totals are true that he never was awarded the DkiG at least.

Greatful for any assistance

Kind Regards

Johannes
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Old 2nd March 2012, 01:42
Kapper Kapper is offline
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Re: Oblt Hans Schmid and ZG52

Johannes

Further to what you have recorded for Hans Schmid - In a book called Zerstorer (I think the Author was Vasco but unfortunately I am using my notes and the book is in storage many miles away so I’m not 100% sure if this is correct) some of ZG2’s activities in the Battle of Britain are discussed. The Author credits Schmid with the following claims

11/8/40 (8th) Hurricane over Weymouth Bay
12/8/40 (9th) Spitfire over Portland
13/8/40 (10th) Hurricane – I didn’t record a location.

Furthermore in Theo Boitens Nachtjagd War Diaries Vol I, the author lists the following claims for Schmid while with 6/NJG 3

29/3/42 (16th) Wellington or Hampden neat Amrun
18/4/42 (17th) Wellington North of Renzburg
29/4/42 (18th) Wellington (I didn’t record the location)
25/9/42 (19th) Lancaster near Stettin

I also have a note saying he was awarded the DkiG but didn’t record where I saw this. I have no date as to when so it may or may not have happened?

Larry Hickey seems to be doing a lot of research on ZG claims maybe if you do a search on Larry’s posts on this Forum may come up with a bit more on ZG52



Regards,

Craig…
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Old 2nd March 2012, 05:52
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Oblt Hans Schmid and ZG52

Hi Graig

Many thanks for getting back to me on this one.

I have no way of checking the 1940 claims, and the earlier form typed out micro film per Staffel doesn't exist for 6./Njg3, however the type that has just a date and a time does exist, there were three claims on 29th April 1942, two slots have been filled, but one is free, that being a claim at 0228hrs, which I will attribute to schmid(seems that somebody else had also come to the same conclusion, but spell his name Schmidt) There was one claim for 6./Njg3 on 18th April 1942, again the slot is free, so i attribute this to Schmidt, which was at 0248hrs. There was no claims at all for 6./Njg3 on 28th March 1942, but one for 28th March 1942 at 2330hrs, however this has already been attributed to Wolfgang Jank! 6./Njg3 appears not to have claimed on 25th September 1942. If taken from Schmid's logbook, or an abschusse board, it could be that two were unconfirmed! As for the numbering, this could be based on false information, in fact is likely to be, or includes unconfirmed.

Regarding the DKiG records end Summer 1944, thereafter he must trust to the occasional pilots document, pilots hearsay or photographic evidence.

Surely Schmid had earn't his DKiG!

Many thank again for your help

Kind Regards

Johannes...........trying to find the truth!
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Old 2nd March 2012, 17:53
Kapper Kapper is offline
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Re: Oblt Hans Schmid and ZG52

Johannes,

I got one of the dates wrong - the September claim was on the night 29/30 September 1942 and Boiten attributes the loss of Lancaster W4327 of 9 Squadron for this claim.

Boiten has the claim of 29 March at 1.04 hrs (I don't have my book with me to double check if I noted the date/time correctly) and credits it as Hampden AE246 of 420 Sqn. I've seen where Janks claim at 23.30 of the 28th and I'm a bit sceptical of this one as I believe he was in 5/NJG3 not 6/NJG3 - he was wounded in action twice with 5/NJG3 on 25/26 June 42 and 4 August 42 - a possible mystery Theo might answer where he got his information from.

The 18 April claim he credits as Wellington X3542 of 57 Squadron

The other claim of 29 April is a mystery to Theo as he cannot find any comparative loss.

Regards,

Craig...
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Old 3rd March 2012, 07:09
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Oblt Hans Schmid and ZG52

Hi Graig

Thanks again for getting back to me.

The Lancaster in September would still be U/C!

Wolfgang Jank is a strange one, no guy in the Luftwaffe had a history like his, I believe he flew for NJG3, 10(N)./ZG1, (N)./JG54, NJG5,I./NJG200 and NJG100. I have nothing like a log-book to confirm the claim for 28th March 1942, as we know that Schmid was there and claiming it is more likely to be his I think, but the time was definanately 2330 hrs, and 0104 hrs is very precise. Trouble is that once something gets published incorrect, it's hard to put it right.

King Regards


Johannes

P.S any ideas on Jank, my guess was that he was a training moving from unit to unit giving instruction, apart from being born on 2nd November 1919, and that his claims end abructly on 15th September 1943 I know really nothing about him! I will check over your loss data claims.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 10:31
Kapper Kapper is offline
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Re: Oblt Hans Schmid and ZG52

Johannes

Are you sure that Wolgang Jank was in 10(Z)./ZG1 ? This one I have as Oblt. Hans Janke?

Also, Theo Boiten in his book has a claim of a 4 engined aircraft by Hptm. Wolfgang Jank of 3./NJG3 on the night of 5/6 March 1945.

The only other relevant information I have is that NNJSchw/JG54 became 1./NJG200 on 17 Aug 43 which in turn became 5./NJG100 on 27 Jun 44. This may explain some of his unit changes. I have no record of Jank being in NJG5?

Regards,

Craig...
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Old 5th March 2012, 09:49
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Oblt Hans Schmid and ZG52

Hi Graig

Yes, you are 100% correct about Wolfgang Janke not being with ZG1, it was Hans-Jochen Janke, who was injured with that unit on the same day as making his second claim.

Regarding Wolfgang's claim with 6./Njg3 also correct, Wolfgang flew with 5./Njg3!

Could be that Schmidt did get that claim, but at a different time!

Kind Regards

Johannes
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Old 6th March 2012, 23:28
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: Oblt Hans Schmid and ZG52

Not to change the subject, but ..... Johannes I've been trying to send you a PM, but mailbox is full!!
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Old 7th March 2012, 05:01
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Oblt Hans Schmid and ZG52

Hi Jim

Thought I'd had cleared it out, but will try again now!

Regards

Johannes
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