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  #1  
Old 16th August 2006, 07:22
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Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

I've received many photos of flak during missions flown by members of my Dad's bomb group. He was lead bombardier th day they went after Heligoland (sp?) and said they got the heck shot out of them that day.

Did the flak units fall under Luftwaffe control? What types of guns (besides the famed 88mm) did they use and is there any way to determine the locations of flak units by month and year?

I've already got a bunch of information on fighters (single and twin), now I'd like to find the same info about the flak units.
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Old 16th August 2006, 08:40
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Re: Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

The majority of FlaK units were controlled by the Luftwaffe. But also the Army ("Heeres-FlaK", "Panzer-FlaK"), the Navy ("Marine-FlaK"), the labor force ("RAD-FlaK") and others had FlaK units.

Typical AA guns (for Army and Air Force) were:
2cm FlaK 29, 30, 38
2cm Flak "Vierling"
3,7cm FlaK 36
(in war also 4cm FlaK 28, Bofors)
88mm Flak 18, 36, 36/37, 40/41,
105mm FlaK
128mm FlaK

As the units usually changed with a certain location and time, your request to have something like that is impossible to match. What is possible, is, if you compile that for your own, if you have a certain location or a specific unit in mind. But I still think, even that would be very difficult, if your requirement is on a day by day basis.

BTW: Spelling: Heligoland is english for the german Helgoland. It's a high cliff island, located outside the outlet of the river "Elbe".
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Last edited by ChrisMAg2; 16th August 2006 at 13:34.
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Old 16th August 2006, 10:17
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Re: Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

Hello,

I think your dad told about the island Helgoland.
I found some interesting stuff in the net:

At Helgoland I've found some units:
- Marine-Flak-Abteilung 242 (under control of German Navy),
- Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI (? - April 1944)
- Jagdstaffel Helgoland
All of this units used FlaK I think.


Marine-Flak-Abteilung 242

Formed 8.26.39 on Helgoland with 4 companies, 1940, 5 companies
(5. from 1./213). 1944, 7 batteries (1-6, 8 ).

Subordinated to Küstenbefehlshaber Ostfriesland,
later Deutsche Bucht, and from 9.44 Seekdt. Elbe-Weser.

Commanders:
August 1939 Kapitänleutnant Troll
März 1940 Korvettenkapitän M.A. Hermann Weber
September 1942 Korvettenkapitän M.A. Dr. Titzck
Oktober 1943 Fregattenkapitän Erwin Schneider


Armament in 1938:

Battery VON SCHRÖDER (MAA 112):
3 x 30,5 cm S.K. L/50 (range 32 km)
2 x 2 cm C/30
Battery JACOBSEN:
3 x 17 cm
2 x 15 cm L/45 illumination guns
Battery FALM:
4 x 10,5 cm AA
Battery NYASSA, later NORDSPITZE:
4 x 8,8 cm AA
Battery TANGANJIKA, later WESTKLIPPE:
2 x 10,5 cm AA
Battery DÜNE:
4 x 10,5 cm AA
Moreover:
2 x 3,7 cm M.K.
1 x 3,7 cm S.K.
2 x 2 cm C/30

Most of the elderly, heavy AA guns were changed against
modern guns at the outbreak of war.


Final armament:

Battery VON SCHRÖDER, manned by MAA112:
3 x 30,5 cm S.K. L/50 (range 32 km)
1 x 15 cm illumination gun
1 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm quadrouble AA
1 x 2 cm AA
Directed by 1 FuMO214 Würzburg-Riese and 5 (?) more devices

Battery NYASSA, later NORDSPITZE, manney by 3./MFlaA242:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
Directed by 1 FuMG201 since 1944
In 1945 it was planned to mount 4 x 12,8 cm AA additionally

Battery JACOBSEN:
3 x 17 cm S.K. L/40 (range 20 km)
1 x 15 cm illumination gun
1 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm Oerlikon AA
Directed by 1 FuMO214 Würzburg-Riese and 1 more device

Battery FALM, manned by 2./MFlaA242:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
4 x 12,8 cm AA in two double mountings since 1945
Directed by 1 FuMO Würzburg D

Battery TANGANJIKA, later WESTKLIPPE, manned by 4./MFlaA242:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
Directed bý 1 FuMO Würzburg D

Battery HAFEN:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
1 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm quadrouble AA
3 x 2 cm double AA
2 x 2 cm AA
2 x 1,5 cm AA

Battery MOLE:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
Mounted on 17.03.1945

On the moles:
1 x 3,7 cm AA
2 x 2 cm AA
6 x 7,3 cm Föhn AA rocket launchers

Uboat-Bunker:
3 x 3,7 cm AA
2 x 2 xm AA
1 FuMO Seetakt

Northeast area:
2 x 7,5 cm
1 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm

Radar equippment:
3 early DeTe-devices, later replaced by FuMG80 Freya
4 Würzburg D - devices
1 FuMO201
1 Wassermann
2 or 3 FuMO214 Würzburg-Riese
Unknown number of FuMO3, 5 and 11 Seetakt-devices

Dune:

Battery WITTEKLIFF:
4 x 10,5 cm S.K. C/32 (range 15 km)
Only until 13.01.1945 and replaced by

Battery AADE:
4 x 7,5 cm AT guns
Mounted on 24.01.1945

Battery DÜNE:
4 x 7,5 cm

Moreover:
4 x 12,8 cm AA since 1944
3 x 3,7 cm AA
1 x 2 cm quadrouble AA
3 x 2 cm
1 Würzburg D


Jagdstaffel Helgoland

Staffelkapitäne:
Olt. Hermann Hintzen, 10.4.43 - 6.43
Olt. Hermann Behrend, 6.43 - 5.7.43
Lt. Erich Hondt, 5.7.43 - 17.8.43
Olt. Erich Bartels, 8.43 - 9.43
Olt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig, 9.43 - 11.43


Formed 10.4.43 in Helgoland
On 30.11.43 redesignated 11./JG11.

Bases:
4.43 - 4.10.43 Helgoland


Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI

I found no more informations.


I hope that helps a little bid.
Maybe some other people can help too.

Sven.
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  #4  
Old 16th August 2006, 12:06
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Re: Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

Hi,
You can find excellent photos and info on thirdreichruins.com
The site also offers other excellent information on various Third reich locations, plus links.
Regards Bulldog.
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  #5  
Old 16th August 2006, 13:21
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Re: Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohentwiel
...
Marine-Flak-Abteilung 242
...
Battery VON SCHRÖDER (MAA 112):
3 x 30,5 cm S.K. L/50 (range 32 km)
...
Believe it or not, one of these guns has atleast one verified kill of an allied bomber. Althogh these are not realy FlaK guns, but "Küstenartillerie".

And
Quote:
Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI
means to say this airfield unit is assigned to Luftgau XI (Hamburg).
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Old 16th August 2006, 14:06
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Re: Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMAg2
means to say this airfield unit is assigned to Luftgau XI (Hamburg).
That's right. Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI was part
of the Flughafen-Bereichs-Kommando 3/XI in Schleswig.
The units were all in Northern Germany, Schleswig-Holstein
and the islands. Source is the famous side www.ww2.dk. in this case.

Units:
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur Schleswig
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur Husum
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur Westerland
-----------------------------------------
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur E 2/XI in Husum [4.41? - 9.43]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur E 6/XI in Schleswig-Land [6.39 - 8.41]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur E 7/XI in Hohenaspe [6.39 - 4.41]
Flugplatzkommando A 1/XI in Hamburg-Fuhlsbüttel [2.43 - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 2/XI in Neumünster [? - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 8/XI on Helgoland [? - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 18/XI in Leck [? - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 20/XI in Flensburg [? - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 21/XI in Uetersen [2.43 - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 55/XI in Grossenbrode [2.43 - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando A 90/XI in Kaltenkirchen [2.43 - 4.44]
Flugplatzkommando B 103/XI (See) in Tönning [2.41 - 4.43]
Flugplatzkommando B 104/XI (See) in Rantum [2.41 - 4.43]
Flugplatzkommando B 105/XI (See) in Hörnum [? - 5.45]
Flugplatzkommando D 108/XI (See) in Schleswig [? - 5.45]
Flugplatzkommando A 133/XI in Husum [9.43 - 4.44]
-----------------------------------------
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 1/XI in Westerland [4.44 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 2/XI in Leck [4.44 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 3/XI in Husum [4.44 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 4/XI in Schleswig-Land [4.44 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 5/XI in Lübeck-Blankensee [4.44 - 10.44 & 3.45 - 5.45]
Fliegerhorst-Kommandantur A (o) 6/XI in Uetersen [4.44 - 10.44 & 3.45 - 5.45]
Flugplatzkommando B 108/XI (See) in Schleswig-See
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Old 16th August 2006, 15:37
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Re: Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

Ok, If Luftgau XI is the district of choice, these are the major Flak units from '41-4/45
(acc. to http://www.ww2.dk/ground/hq/lgxi.htm):
  • 3. Flak-Division in Hamburg [9.41 - 4.45]
  • 8. Flak-Division in Bremen [9.41 - 4.45]
  • 8. Flak-Brigade in Oldenburg/Hannover/Wismar [2.41 - 3.45]
  • 15. Flak-Brigade in Hannover-Burgdorf [6.42 - 4.44]
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Old 16th August 2006, 16:18
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Re: Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMAg2
Believe it or not, one of these guns has atleast one verified kill of an allied bomber. Althogh these are not realy FlaK guns, but "Küstenartillerie".
Hi Chris,
The 38 cm guns in Hanstholm also had a Flak capability and role - with radar control by a W-R.
bregds
SES
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Old 16th August 2006, 16:30
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Re: Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

Michael,
but -seriously- Fla (with or without radar guidance) was not their main objective, not?
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Old 16th August 2006, 16:33
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Re: Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

Hi Chris,
No they were a costal battery, Flak was a secondary function, but imagine sitting in a B-17/24 and get in the way of a 800 kg grenade.
bregds
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