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  #1  
Old 30th April 2018, 11:30
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A-20 17 VA

This photo was found on Soviet Archives ...is marked as a A-20 based somewhere in Bulgaria sometime in 1944. I doubt this info and I ask those
who are familiar with this to verify the nfo

Last edited by researcher111; 24th June 2018 at 00:24.
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Old 30th April 2018, 14:17
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: A-20 17 VA

I doubt it too. This is an A-20C (B-3), where black No.28 on the nose corresponds to ~ S/N: 41-19140 or so. On October 1, 1944 the 17th Air Army had only the following A-20C Bostons in their 244 BAD regiments (260, 449, 861 BAP):

41-19353, 42-33151, 42-33294, 42-33302, 42-33326, 42-33348, 42-33359.

UA-20C (trainer versions) in 17 VA, 244 BAD service by October 1, 1944: ...416, ...802, 41-19623, 41-19627, 41-19291, 41-19346.

But eg. on August 1, 1942 the 17 VA, 861 BAP had similar A-20C Bostons to 41-19140:

41-19115
41-19132
41-19134
41-19138
41-19153
41-19154
41-19256
41-19278
41-19280
41-19290
41-19320
41-19324
41-19326
41-19349
41-19592,

so from that "early" range. If 41-19140 belonged to the 244 BAD indeed, then the date and location (Bulgaria) is incorrect, - alias way too late, and definitely nothing like that between October 1, 1944 - July 1, 1945. Another similar, early A-20C, S/N: 41-19142 belonged to 277 BBAP, - but of course, 277 BBAP was not in the 17th Air Army.

Gabor
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Old 30th April 2018, 19:30
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Re: A-20 17 VA

I totally agree with you , the Russian archive who published the stuff is just misleading
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Old 1st May 2018, 00:02
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Re: A-20 17 VA

Yep, looks like it is. By the way, the mechanical-maintenance document for the 17 VA, 861 BAP "Boston-3" bombers on August 1, 1942 lists the installed engine serial numbers as well for the aircrafts.
Gabor

Last edited by HGabor; 16th May 2018 at 14:32.
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Old 1st May 2018, 00:10
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Re: A-20 17 VA

Thanks Gabor . questions :

1.Did the attachment saw combat in Hungaria ?

2. Where 449 BAP was based later in Hungaria ?

Last edited by researcher111; 24th June 2018 at 00:24.
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Old 1st May 2018, 00:15
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: A-20 17 VA

Yes, the 244 BAD with all of their 3 regiments (260, 449, 861 BAP) followed and covered the 3rd Ukrainian Front through Yugoslavia, Hungary and Austria in 1944-1945.

17 VA, 244 BAD, 449 BAP bomber airfields in Hungary (YYYY/MM/DD):

Zombor (Sombor) - (1944.12.16 - 1945.01.03.)
Madocsa - (1945.01.03 – 1945.01.20.)
Érsekcsanád - (1945.01.20 - 1945.02.05.)
Zombor - (1945.02.05 – 1945.03.25.)
Tököl (Budapest-S) - (1945.03.25 - 1945.03.31.)
Veszprém-Jutas - (1945.03.31 - 1945.04.04.)
Pápa - (1945.04.04 - 1945.04.26.)
Röjtökmuzsaj - (1945.04.26 –)

Gabor
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Old 1st May 2018, 00:22
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: A-20 17 VA

Nice graphic. Yes, this A-20B S/N: 41-2937, "За Победу!" was shot down in Hungary over Börgönd airfield by Hptm. Helmut Lipfert on January 8, 1945 at 14:18 with 2 other Bostons. (43-21588 and 43-9596) Her crew of 4 was killed at the crash:

л-т Ветлов Виктор Михайлович pilot (№104164, +)
л-т Ионов Виктор Матвеевич navigator (№104174, +)
с-а Толмацкий Иосиф Исаевич radioman (+)
с-т Бурцев Василий Федорович gunner (+)

Gabor
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Old 1st May 2018, 14:19
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Re: A-20 17 VA

Thanks Gabor , I think this crew were a Crimean and 2nd Iasi Chisinau Offennsive vets
do you by chance got their photos ? Also it states that Lipfert last victory in Hungaria
was a Yak 9 D , do you know the pilot's name ?
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Old 1st May 2018, 14:56
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: A-20 17 VA

1: No pic of crew.

2: Lipfert: it was a Yak-9M, NOT a Yak-9D! S/N: 4515340, 5 VA, 331 IAD, 179 IAP, л-т Рагулин Виктор Яковлевич (MIA) at Ács-Felsőgalla on March 21, 1945 at 15:30 (local time).

"17:30 (Moscow time) На разведку, вед м-р Костиков. При подходе к п. Ач навстречу 8 ФВ-190. Пара развернулась на 180 гр чтобы уйти в облачность. В это время 12 ФВ-190 идущие с востока пошли в атаку. * - на Рагулина, 12 - на Костикова. Костиков отбил атаку, перешел на бреющий и ушел на свою территорию. Рагулин НБЗ.//Костиков сбил одного и подбил одного, рагулин сбил одного ФВ-190. На разведку, вед м-р Костиков. При подходе к п. Ач навстречу 8 ФВ-190. Пара развернулась на 180 гр чтобы уйти в облачность. В это время 12 ФВ-190 идущие с востока пошли в атаку. * - на Рагулина, 12 - на Костикова. Костиков отбил атаку, перешел на бреющий и ушел на свою территорию. Рагулин НБЗ."

Reported time & area: 100% match! (I am not surprised, since Lipfert was a crazy accurate and honest fighter ace!) Fw and Bf fighters were regularly misidentified in soviet reports, especially in cloudy, dark weather.
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Old 1st May 2018, 15:12
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Re: A-20 17 VA

Ragulin's Yak-9M was a new plane, because on January 14, 1945 the 179 IAP had only the following 6 Yak-9s, the rest (18) was all Yak-1Bs (plus a Po-2 biplane for HQ):

2515313
2515366
2815338
3215337
7153100
10166027

(As you see, one was from Omsk, Factory No.166 and 5 from Novosibirsk, Factory No.153.)
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