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Old 28th June 2018, 19:28
andy bird andy bird is offline
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7 Aug 43 Beaufighter of 248 shot down by Fw190s

Whilst on an offensive patrol 3 Beaufighters of 248 Squadron were intercepted giving escort to a Liberator (after also sighting four airmen in a dinghy).

Does anyone know the Fw190 unit and the German pilots name(s) who downed the Beaufighter.

Thank you for your time and consideration

Best regards

Andy Bird
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:04
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: 7 Aug 43 Beaufighter of 248 shot down by Fw190s

Hello Andy,

this was the first confirmed victory of Fw Helmut Haase from 1./SAGr. 128, 20.55 PlQu. 14 West/3815.
Source: JFV Vol. 10/IV.

Regards
Leo
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Old 28th June 2018, 23:36
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
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Re: 7 Aug 43 Beaufighter of 248 shot down by Fw190s

If I remember correctly the combat is mentioned in Bloody Biscay
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Old 29th June 2018, 09:01
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Re: 7 Aug 43 Beaufighter of 248 shot down by Fw190s

Hello all

In "Bloody Biscay" p.96,it's Ofw.Fritz May(8/JG2) who shot down a beauf. of 248°sqd.

In "Tony Wodd" list p.45;it's Ofv.Hans Gryz (1./SAGr.128) who shot down a beauf.

Now,according J.Prien;it's Fw.Helmut Haase (1./SAGr.128) who shot down a beauf.

Well,guys.....in the end,who is the winner?

Michel
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Old 29th June 2018, 12:33
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
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Re: 7 Aug 43 Beaufighter of 248 shot down by Fw190s

The information I had from Heinz Nowarra many moons ago was that May and Gryz made claims on 7 Aug 43 which accords with Winnicott and, as it would transpire, JM343 a week later (read to the book to find out why). I note that from Jochen's book, he credits Haase with the kill and can only bow to what he has as my book was written 1997, his far more recently
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Old 29th June 2018, 15:33
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: 7 Aug 43 Beaufighter of 248 shot down by Fw190s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Goss View Post
The information I had from Heinz Nowarra many moons ago was that May and Gryz made claims on 7 Aug 43 which accords with Winnicott and, as it would transpire, JM343 a week later (read to the book to find out why). I note that from Jochen's book, he credits Haase with the kill and can only bow to what he has as my book was written 1997, his far more recently
Chris
Is Ofw Fritz May the same person as Ofw Friedrich May? If so, checking Prien and Mathews, none of them list him as making any claim on 7 Aug 1943, so no doubt he is not found on the microfilms. In fact there seems not to be a single claim by the entire JG 2 that day.

Then who claimed the Beaufighter on 7 Aug? Andrew Arthy in an article about 1./SAGr 128 claims, as does Chris, that Ofw Gryz did. Comparing the article by Arthy and the claims in Prien Vol 10/IV works fine up to 29 July 1943, but after that they differ heavily. Comparison with Matthews makes things even more complicated, since I have very few of his lists for pilots below 5 claims, but making a try, I have listed the three sources as well as I can. Note only 1./SAGr 128 claims are compared.

Arthy Prien Matthews
29.7.43 Gryz Gryz Haase + Wurm
7.8.43 Gryz Haase Wurm
22.8.43 Wurm Haase Wurm
25.8.43 Stain Wurm Wurm
25.8.43 Wurm Gast Wurm
25.8.43 Jarmer Gast
25.8.43 Jost Haase
9.9.43 ------ Wurm Wurm

I don't have Matthews claims for either Gast, Gryz, Stain, Jarmer or Jost but we can easily see that if they made any claims these days, we have plenty of further claims to deal with. Wurm it should be mentioned is also listed by Matthews making more claims than is listed by either Arthy or Prien.

I don't know the reason for this rather huge discrepancy between these three researchers. I DO know that reading the microfilms are extremely tricky and occasionally it seems the researchers apply what I use to call educated guesses.

Anyway Andy, you still have three contenders for the 7 August date...

Cheers
Stig
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Old 30th June 2018, 10:51
andy bird andy bird is offline
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Re: 7 Aug 43 Beaufighter of 248 shot down by Fw190s

Thank you Chis, Stig, Michel, and Leo

Help really appreciated, was contacted by relatives of pilot on Tuesday after I got back form Chalk Valley History Festival enquiring about his death on 7 August. So will write up the air combat in between doing the final edit and index for Heroes of Coastal Command and making a push to finish Berlin Airlift for Frontline books for September.

Then onto three works for Amberley Coastal Command, The Blenheim and Beaufighter.

Best regards

Andrew
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