Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

[Larry deZeng]

This thread seems to be full of experienced HW researchers so I am hoping someone might be able to fill me in on this wonderful resource as it exists today at Kew. 20-25 years ago I read in detail and took reams of notes from every one of the 50,000+ PRO DEFE 3 ULTRA signals to the field commands that were microfilmed in the late 1970's by Clearwater Publishing (Tampa, Florida). So here are a few questions about the HW collection as it exists today:

1) Has the British National Archives done anything about microfilming (or microfiching) the great mass of new ULTRA material released for public use beginning around 1995?

2) Huge numbers of avid U.K. Luftwaffe enthusiasts have been busy photographing the HW collection with their digital cameras for a number of years now. They take these photos home, use what information they need and then, presumably, file them away on a CD or such. Are any of these enthusiasts attempting to sell copies of these digitally photographed ULTRA messages so those of us not able to pop in and out of the National Archives at will can perhaps buy them?

3) There are a few (very, very few!) oddball individuals like yours truly who are interested in more than just Werknummern, Stammkennzeichen and who-shot-who down. I, me, we would be most interested in those intercepts that concern the Luftwaffen-Bodenorganisation units that associate them with locations, movements, activity, personnel strength and the like, this of course including signals units (Luftnachrichten-) and the units of the Flakartillerie. My assumption here is that the higher level discourse at Fliegerdivision, Fliegerkorps, Luftfotte and OKL level was in the DEFE 3 series or extracted to the Sunset summaries that are already available here in the North American colonies.

Any information will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Larry

[AndreasB]

@Nick

That's how I got into HW5, I started on HW1, and ended up missing the removed papers, and the helpdesk staff pointed me towards HW5.

@Larry (Hi!)

AFAIK only naval intercepts are on microfilm.

Unfortunately for you, I think a lot of the ground stuff may have gone over phone wires instead of radio, so I would guess there is less of it. But that is really just a guess.

As for making pictures available, I'll probably do that when I have finished the book, assuming by then bandwith has become reasonably cheap.

@Marcel

I know nothing about 1944, I am afraid. I concur on the volume you can get through in a day, based on 1941 experience. With 6-7 folders (say, up to 1,500 images - I use a digital reflex) you are better off NOT doing a bulk order, but instead booking a camera stand, in my view.

All the best

Andreas

[Larry deZeng]

Thanks for your reply, Andreas. I was hoping for something a bit more encouraging but I must admit that your news is pretty much what I was expecting.

As for the non-flying units of the Luftwaffe, their exposure in ULTRA was extensive but, as you noted, perhaps not quite as extensive as it was for the flying units. But every little bit helps and I was hoping at least some of the HW material might have found its way into a transferable media format by now.

Larry

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Nick, Andreas and Larry,

First of all thanks for all your answers, though discouraging these are about the speed of processing all those pages. Am I correct that with some decent equipment (read: digital camera and those camera stand) it should theoretically be possible to process a month of reports in a week?

Though it might seem that one only take pictures of documents with relevant info, the speed of processing seems much lower compared with 'blindly' taking pictures of each page, regardless their content.

Larry: I do care about the ground units too (!!!), because one of the remaining blanks in my knowledge of Venlo airfield in WW-2 are the Flak-units involved with the airfield air defense, the Lw. Berge unit (if any), Landesschützenzüge and the companies of the Fliegerausbildungs Regiment and their respective commanders.

Well, at least it is clear that those HW5 files could disclose these answers and the help guide that Nick has written will help a lot !

All the best and thanks for sharing, Marcel

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Marcel Hogenhuis

Hello Nick, Andreas and Larry,

Am I correct that with some decent equipment (read: digital camera and those camera stand) it should theoretically be possible to process a month of reports in a week?

Though it might seem that one only take pictures of documents with relevant info, the speed of processing seems much lower compared with 'blindly' taking pictures of each page, regardless their content.

Marcel

You could do more than a month's files in a week, I'd say. You're right that just "blindly" photographing every page could well be quicker (but at the cost of much more time when you get home, spent identifying the things you actually want). Just take some big memory cards.

[RodM]

Originally Posted by Marcel Hogenhuis

Hello Nick, Andreas and Larry,

First of all thanks for all your answers, though discouraging these are about the speed of processing all those pages. Am I correct that with some decent equipment (read: digital camera and those camera stand) it should theoretically be possible to process a month of reports in a week?

Hi Marcel,

as an example, a couple of years ago I photographed all of the CX/MSS/R reports for the period 1 January - 23 May 1945 (covered by files HW 5/640-703). This took around two days, and equates to 6,700 pages. In terms of the CX/MSS/T material, I'd previously purchased a set of DEFE 3 microfilms for the same period, and used these to identify relevant CX/MSS/T signals, which could then be ordered individually from TNA. Although this route was costly, I found it easier to be able to go through the microfilms on more than one occasion at my leisure and this probably halved the number of photos I had to take when actually at TNA.

Cheers

Rod

[RodM]

Hi Everyone,

as a side note, DEFE 3/573 contains are series of signals that were NOT generally telexed to commands (instead they were forwarded to specific individuals) and not transcribed into the main volumes of HW 5.

This was mainly because of the increased sensitivity of the material. Although not strictly relevant to the Luftwaffe, these signals do relate to reports of crashed Allied aircraft where personnel names were mentioned and to PoW matters in general (for example, reports concerning the mass migration of PoWs in the last months of the war).

Has anyone seen a file in the HW series that could be the "HW 5' equivalent of this DEFE 3 microfilm?

Cheers

Rod

[Larry deZeng]

Hi Rod,

Back in the late eighties/early nineties I brought in all the DEFE 3 series via interlibrary loan and sat at my desk at home in front of my microfilm reader and typewriter over a 3 or 4 years span extracting everything of interest, mostly order of battle, unit movements, operational activity and such. Then, in the late nineties, the PRO began opening up the HW 5 material and I developed an immediate craving for what I thought would be even richer and better than DEFE 3. I had a long wait but recently a good friend and colleague began sending me some of the HW 5 decrypts so I could see what I had missed. Apparently, not much. From a purely operational, order of battle standpoint, I am now convinced that the really important, comprehensive material is in DEFE 3. HW 5 seems to be the backwash material that Hut 3 did not determine met the criteria to be forwarded to the commands in the field for their use. Perhaps I just got into a bad run of HW 5, those I examined being from the May - July 1941 period.

What say you, Rod? Would you agree or do you feel otherwise?

Cheers,

Larry

[AndreasB]

Marcel

It really depends on your focus. For example in my case, photographing only S.E. Europe and Italy & Africa intercepts (for every day they are broken into four separate geographic areas "Northwest Europe and Germany", "Eastern Front", and those two, plus German B-Dienst and Radio beacon/frequency info), I could get through one month in a day. No selection, I simply took pictures of everything. If you have restricted time at Kew, but more time at home, that's the way to go.

All the best

Andreas

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello guys,

Thanks for all these interesting (and much more encouraging!) info: a month of photographed files sounds a lot better than my previous fears.

As my keen interest is Venlo A/F in WW-2 in general and the history of the I./NJG 1 and other units operating from 'my' airfield in particular, I can focus on NW-Europe and Germany I guess, thus speeding up the photographing.

If I have grown up (an unlikely prospective) I will write a book about this I./NJG 1.

All the best, Marcel