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  #31  
Old 29th September 2016, 14:01
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: Saburo Sakai

hello Mars

thank you for your explanation.I am half convinced but it's me

just a question for all on this forum: the historic truth,we just forget?why not,in this case it's necessary to say to Chistopher Shores for exemple not to write any more his exellents books,because some on this forum seem to think that the historic truth have no importance
it's not my idea.

for others as me,send your address e-mails,I would send you details of kills/losses of the Tainan Kokutai and after each can drawn his conclusions.

besr regards to all
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  #32  
Old 29th September 2016, 19:39
Flavio Flavio is offline
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Re: Saburo Sakai

Quote:
Originally Posted by focusfocus View Post
hello Mars

thank you for your explanation.I am half convinced but it's me

just a question for all on this forum: the historic truth,we just forget?why not,in this case it's necessary to say to Chistopher Shores for exemple not to write any more his exellents books,because some on this forum seem to think that the historic truth have no importance
it's not my idea.

for others as me,send your address e-mails,I would send you details of kills/losses of the Tainan Kokutai and after each can drawn his conclusions.

besr regards to all
focusfocus,
you are right, we have to follow the historic truth.

Any way if you have a revisited a score you can compare it only with another revisited. Does make sense compare Sakai's 4 with Kozhedub's 64 or Hartmann's 352 or Bong's 40? The problem is that it is impossible to clear 100% official scores from overclaiming. Even the excellent works by Shores are not able; comparing claims to real losses gives you just an idea of the amount of the overclaiming but facing off dogfights with dozens of pilots involved and dozens of claimings who knows exactly the pilot that really shoot down an enemy plane? There are exceptions of course, but reconstruction with 100% of authenticity is impossible.

Flavio
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  #33  
Old 30th September 2016, 08:55
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Saburo Sakai

Flavio is right.

M
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  #34  
Old 30th September 2016, 10:17
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: Saburo Sakai

Hi Flavio

ALL you says is right,I agree with you is 200%
the one who compares Sakai,Bong,Hartmann..... is an IDIOT
yes a revised list stays a revised list, after to historians,autority legal....to make the job or not

best regards
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  #35  
Old 30th September 2016, 17:10
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
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Re: Saburo Sakai

Quote:
Originally Posted by focusfocus View Post
Hi Flavio

ALL you says is right,I agree with you is 200%
the one who compares Sakai,Bong,Hartmann..... is an IDIOT
yes a revised list stays a revised list, after to historians,autority legal....to make the job or not

best regards
m

Be careful here. There was VAST over claiming by all combatants in WWII. Your last part of your post is not all that clear.
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  #36  
Old 30th September 2016, 23:34
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: Saburo Sakai

"some on this forum seem to think that the historic truth have no importance"

My own impression of TOCH, focusfocus, is that hardly anyone here thinks like that. Aren't you in danger of overclaiming?
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  #37  
Old 1st October 2016, 11:38
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: Saburo Sakai

hello all

my language is not english, I don't anderstand toch.

in summary

Saburo Sakai(Sakai Saburo in japanese language) was a great,very great pilot in ww2
his first big victory was to survive in ww2( how many dead pilots)
but he is an "ace" with a record of victories: how victories?

no"official" japanese victory board,no any "official" japanese score list by government,historians and enthusiasats trying to put a list: everybody knows that!

I have the claims of Sakai in Rabaul/new guinea ( 1.4.42 to 2.8.42) from the Tainan Kokutai "Kodochosho"

total=37 claims ( alone or shared ) and we have his log book total same periode = 53

I want to anderstand why 64 or 28 ,a dozen, more or less

the simplicity is to look the "kodochosho" no? and now why not?

I am just an enthusiast and want to understand .

Is this someone who can help me? otherwise we pass has other things.

good day all

best regards
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  #38  
Old 1st October 2016, 15:54
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Re: Saburo Sakai

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Originally Posted by focusfocus View Post
hello all

my language is not english, I don't anderstand toch.
best regards
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  #39  
Old 3rd October 2016, 02:35
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Saburo Sakai

So, where exactly does this story fit into Sakai's victory list? Source: http://jsonpedia.org/annotate/resour..._Squadron_RAAF

In July 1942, No. 32 Squadron was active in the Gona area and during the lead-up to the Battle of Milne Bay.Wilson, Stewart. Anson, Hudson & Sunderland in Australian Service. Aerospace Publications, Weston Creek ACT 1992. ISBN 1-875671-02-1The skill and fighting spirit of a lone, outnumbered crew from No. 32 Squadron impressed Saburō Sakai, who would become among the highest-scoring Japanese aces of the war. (30 April 2014). Pilot Officer Warren Cowan, Pilot Officer David Taylor, Sergeant Russell Polack and Sergeant Lauri Sheard, in Hudson Mk IIIA A16–201 (bu.no. 41-36979), were killed in action after being shot down by Sakai on 22 July 1942. (30 April 2014). A16–201 was intercepted over Buna, Papua New Guinea by nine Mitsubishi A6M "Zeroes" of the Tainan Air Group, led by Sakai. The Hudson's crew surprised the Zero pilots by taking the initiative in a turning dogfight and were apparently unscathed for at least 10 minutes. Sakai observed that after he killed or wounded the Hudson's rear/upper gunner, the pilot became less able to evade his rounds. It caught fire and crashed in jungle near the coastal village of Popogo. So impressed were the Japanese pilots by their opponents that, many years after the war's end, Sakai asked Australian researchers to help him identify the pilot. In 1997, Sakai took the unusual step of writing to the Australian government, recommending that Cowan be "posthumously awarded your country's highest military decoration".The Commonwealth's highest military honour – and the only Military awards and decorations that can be awarded posthumously, has always been the Victoria Cross. The suggestion was rejected on the grounds that all such recommendations had been closed at the war's end, 52 years earlier
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  #40  
Old 3rd October 2016, 09:45
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: Saburo Sakai

hi Nick

story of the hudson well known

I join these informations

from the "kodochosho"

1° patrol over Buna

1 Shotai: mototsuna yoshida,shiro kawai,tatsusuke goto

2 Shotai: tadashi hayashitani,yoshisuke hoshiya,kazushi uto

without incident ( 1345 hours)

2° patrol

1° Shotai:hiroshi okano,ichirobei yamazaki,joji yamashita

2° Shotai:tora'ichi takatsuka,susumi matsuki,yoshio motoyoshi

without incident ( 1600hours)

3° patrol

1° Shotai:jun'ichi sasai,toshio ota,masuaki endo

2° Shotai: saburo sakai,masayoshi yonekawa,yoshio mogi

hudson shot down, the "kodochosho lists the victory ( 1450 hours ) sharing equally between the 6 pilots above.

in his log book Sakai: hudson shared with 7 pilots.

regards
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