Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 7th October 2017, 14:37
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brandenburg, Germany
Posts: 567
knusel is on a distinguished road
Carroll Smith questions

Good afternoon Gentlemen,

I have some questions about top US nightfighter ace Carroll Smith.
  1. Is he still alive ?
  2. Until when did he command 418. NFS ?
  3. In "American Nightfighter Aces of World War 2" Thomas/Thompson write that Smith has 2 P-38 kills. Didn't he score 3 P-38 kills (13Jan, 13Jan, 28Nov) ?
Cheers,

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 7th October 2017, 20:36
RSwank RSwank is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Holland, MI USA
Posts: 539
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Carroll Smith questions

He died in 1994: http://valor.militarytimes.com/recip...pientid=381145

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/f...r&GRid=1189332
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 7th October 2017, 21:13
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 996
Frank Olynyk
Re: Carroll Smith questions

His score in the P-38 was 2/2/0; dest on Jan 13, 1944 and Nov 28, 1944; prob on Nov 26 and 28 1944. And five victories in the P-61 with Philip Porter as his radar operator. It is possible that Porter got a sixth victory in the Korean War with James Little (CBI ace) as his pilot in an F-82G, 339th F(AW)S, since Porter was the senior radar operator in the 339th at that time. But I have found no documentation of Little's radar operator that day.

Enjoy!

Frank.
__________________
Civilization is the most fragile ecology of all.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 8th October 2017, 00:02
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brandenburg, Germany
Posts: 567
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: Carroll Smith questions

Good evening RSwank & Frank Olynyk,

thanks for your posts.
Would you say that the second 13Jan kill featured in the list (page 181) provided by Alex Smart
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showpo...73&postcount=2
is an erroneous duplication ?

Cheers,

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 8th October 2017, 00:54
RSwank RSwank is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Holland, MI USA
Posts: 539
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Carroll Smith questions

Here is the official list. It shows two on 13 January for Smith.

http://aces.safarikovi.org/victories...ii-by.name.pdf



The history of the 418th is here.

http://417th-nightfighters.com/wp-co...tory418NFS.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 8th October 2017, 17:00
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 2,644
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: Carroll Smith questions

Hello Roland,
The first link is surely an improved copy of the link (original list ) given in the "Sticky" section on this forum ?
http://www.afhra.af.mil/Information/...tudies-51-100/
Or are there changes I.e, additions or deletions ?

Alex
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 8th October 2017, 18:02
RSwank RSwank is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Holland, MI USA
Posts: 539
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Carroll Smith questions

Alex, I am not sure if the list I posted is just a cleaned up reprinting of your list or if there are actual revisions on it. I know it seems to agree as far as the count goes (8 for Smith) as is shown on this 2011 list of aces as is shown on this link.

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineA...1/0511aces.pdf


They note that the official determinations are done by the Air Force Historical Research Agency, Maxwell AFB, Ala.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 9th October 2017, 08:53
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 996
Frank Olynyk
Re: Carroll Smith questions

Historical Study 85, referenced in Alex' post, was published in 1978, and covered all USAAF aerial claims by fighters in World War 2. Additional Historical Studies covered the claims in WW1, Korea and Vietnam. These four lists were later updated and combined into a single volume with alphabetical and date order listings for each conflict, and published in 1988. This version was later converted into a searchable database and loaded to the Air University website. Later the credits for the various conflicts in the 1990's were added. This website's use apparently was found to exceed the Air University's ability to support it, and was taken down, with, as far as I know, no replacement. While the website was up, corrections were made to it as additional confirmations were found which satisfied the USAFHRA criteria. I do not believe I have ever seen actual copies of HS85 or the 1988 combined version ever offered for sale on the Internet (although since I have copies I do not usually search for them).

Both lists show two victories for Carroll Smith on Jan 13, 1944, which I believe is incorrect. A copy of the mission report for Smith can be found on Maxwell microfilm reel A0801, frame 1197, and a copy of his personal combat report can be found at frame 1213. They show only a single victory. Further, the book on the 418th NFS referenced above by RSwank shows only a single victory. I will email USAFHRA with this information, and post their response when I receive it.

Enjoy!

Frank.
__________________
Civilization is the most fragile ecology of all.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 9th October 2017, 09:40
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brandenburg, Germany
Posts: 567
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: Carroll Smith questions

Good morning Gentlemen,

in "American Nightfighter Aces of World War 2" by Thomas/Thompson Carroll Smith is cited and he talks about a kill (singular) in the early days of his career
However, curiously the book indicates 2 kills on 28Nov (!)

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 9th October 2017, 14:48
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 2,644
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: Carroll Smith questions

Hello Michael,
He may well have refer to a single kill, which could be correct.
My reason for bringing this up following your latest post is simply that if a claim was made/confirmed by a crew both were credited. It could be that the pilot made a kill and that the Nav/Gunner also made a kill, hence two kills but each only had one.
Hope you follow my rather poor offering.
Alex
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bf 109 Landing Gear Questions D.B. Andrus Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 26 22nd February 2017 04:54
Questions about 607 Sqdn Hurricane's Alex Smart Allied and Soviet Air Forces 7 23rd October 2015 09:50
Lt 'Buster' Hallett/Lt Victor Smith, RAN BruceMk11 Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 19th September 2015 12:03
Questions you'd possibly like asked to 5 x P-51, 2 x P47 and 2 x P-40 Pilot in August Mysticpuma Allied and Soviet Air Forces 1 19th April 2012 21:13
Some questions about KG 54 Bombing Rotterdam may 14 1940 Foute Man Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 5th January 2009 09:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net