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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #11  
Old 9th October 2017, 15:13
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

Good afternoon Alex,

good idea but this issue is about Smith's P-38 kills.
Do you think he took Mr. Porter with him on his lap ?
;-)

Michael
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  #12  
Old 13th October 2017, 21:36
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

Good evening,

everywhere I read that the P-61 had a crew of 3.
Wasn't the P-61 a two-seater ???

Michael
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  #13  
Old 13th October 2017, 21:52
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

P-61 had a crew of 2 or 3. Pilot and radar operator in all cases. If it retained the four gun .50 cal turret it would also carry a gunner to operate it.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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  #14  
Old 14th October 2017, 08:11
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

Hello Frank,

thans for your answer.
It looks like the P-61 aces Carroll Smith, Paul Smith, Herman Ernst and Eugene Axtell flew without a gunner, didn't they ?

Sincerely,

Michael
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  #15  
Old 14th October 2017, 14:25
RSwank RSwank is offline
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

There is an article about P-61s here:
https://www.airspacemag.com/history-...ows-180959772/

It points out that the top remote turrets were in short supply (the same turret was used on B-29s) and about half of the P-61s built just had 4 fixed forward firing guns in place of the turret. Some pilots would still take a gunner along as an extra pair of eyes, but it appears that most did not.
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  #16  
Old 15th October 2017, 13:32
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

Hello,

that's a very interesting article.
It mentions a grand total of 158 kills.
I suppose that includes 127,5 P-61 kills and 31 US Beaufighter kills, doesn't it ?

Kind regards,

Michael
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  #17  
Old 17th October 2017, 10:29
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

I have contacted USAFHRA at Maxwell AFB about Carroll Smith's January 13, 1944 victory/victories. According to their records this was documented by reference to a 5th Air Force G.O. 264. When they went to look for it, they found that their collection of 5th AF GOs skips from 260 to 270. Which means that when the original index was built they found a copy elsewhere (probably St Louis). A check of the unit history shows only a single victory (Val) on that date. If the Director and Deputy Director of USAFHRA accept this conclusion, they will change the index to show only a single victory on Jan 13, 1944.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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  #18  
Old 17th October 2017, 11:09
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

Dear Frank,

thanks a lot for that.
A single kill on 13Jan1944 is also implied by the quoted words of Smith in OSPREY's "American Nightfighter Aces of World War 2".
Irritatingly, this very book indicates two confirmed kills for Smith on 28Nov1944.
What do you think about that ?

Kind regards,

Michael
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  #19  
Old 17th October 2017, 11:57
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

On Nov 28, 1944 Smith claimed a Betty probable at 0410, and a Betty destroyed at 0413. These are documented by his Individual Combat Report on NARA microfilm series M1065, reel 8 frame 25; and by his Narrative Combat Report on Maxwell microfilm A0801 frame 1655.

The unit history book, referenced above, based on A0801, claims two victories on Nov 28 in its text, but the list of victories in the back shows only one. And the actual combat reports claim only one and a probable.

I might note that this thread properly belongs in the Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Pacific, since these combats are taking place in the Netherlands East Indies and the Philippine Islands.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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  #20  
Old 17th October 2017, 13:59
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Re: Carroll Smith questions

Good afternoon Frank,

cool.
That renders Carroll Smith and Archibald Harrington jointly the topfighter aces of the USA with 7 night kills each.
Do you know why Smith reverted to the P-38 after having scored his second kill in the P-61 ?

Have a nice day,

Michael
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