Captured Ar 196 in Scotland 1940

[Petrusja]

Hello,

During the invasion of Norway in April 1940 an Arado Ar 196 from the cruiser Admiral Hipper was captured by the Norwegians and used for a while. On 18 April it was flown, together with two stranded Walrus and a Norwegian MF.11 aircraft, to Scapa Flow. Commander C.W.Byras flew it to MAEE in Helensburg where he crashed it on arrival (or later in a take-off? I'm interested in more details about the crash and the evaluation of the aircraft/wreck) In particular I'd like to know if this and other embarked Ar 196A-2s had wing-mounted cannon, because at least one of these apparently didn't.


Photos would also be great, of course. Thanks for any information


Peter

[Chris Goss]

It was said to be an A-2 Wk Nr 0043 6W+BN of 5./196. It was interned 8 April 1940 as were the crew Oblt Werner Techam and Lt Johannes Polzin. It crashed on landing at Rhu on Gareloch and overturned on 26 April 1940

[Seaplanes]

There is a full technical report on this aircraft at the National Archives at Kew (London) in the AIR40 series. It is correct that the aircraft was an Ar 196A-2 with W.Nr. 0044. However, the unit code is not 100% confirmed. The crew came most likely from 5./196, but the origin of the aircraft is not confirmed.
The W.Nr. is confirmed in the loss report in KTB Gen.d.Lw.b.Ob.d.M/O.Qu. for 16. April 1940. Here the unit is referred to as 1./196.

[Petrusja]

Thanks, both of you. That report can only be seen at Kew?

According to luftwaffe-zur-see.de, the WNr is 43 (Stammkennzeichen CU+AE, code 6W+BN, belonging to 5./196 at Kiel, assigned to Hipper 19 March 1040.

WNr 44 was also on board Hipper, but according to them was back in Holtenau by 14 April and they have it still in service in 1943.

An interesting detail about Techam and Polzin is that they are both given as naval lieutenants whereas normally the pilot was Luftwaffe and the observer and aircraft commander Kriegsmarine in the embarked aircraft.

[Graham Boak]

My understanding was that the wing cannon were introduced on the A-3, but that's from a long time ago so I can't guarantee the accuracy.

[Petrusja]

No, the A-2 normally came with cannon. On a photo they are absent on one T3+HH, but checking again, that photo seems to be from much later in the war. The question remains if they were sometimes removed on the embarked Ar 196s as they may have impaired seaworthiness. But they seem to have been present during Weserübung.

[Seaplanes]

To Petrusja
Do not believe everything you see on Luftwaffe-zur-See, unless it is supported by references to original German documentation, for example the Kriegstagebücher of Gen.d.Lw.b.Ob.s.M./O.Qu. But even here mistakes and typos occur. The KTB of "Hipper" for the period in question is available, but it does not give any details on the markings and W.Nr. for the aircraft despatched on 8. April 1940 off Trondheim.

You claim that the W.Nr. 0044 can be accounted for later in the War. What kind of original documentation support that. Perhaps pilots log-books.

[Petrusja]

Hello Seaplanes.

On WNr 44 I said 'according to them' , meaning luftwaffe-zur-see. I don't trust them blindly, no, thanks.

When damaged Scharnhorst returned to Germany from Trondheim on 20 June, it was seen by a Coastal Command Hudson off Sognefjorden (just north of Bergen) on the 21th. According to Norwegian author Geirr Haarr a Sunderland of No 204 Sqn was then driven off by some Bf 109s and an Ar 196 from Scharnhorst, with one of the 109s shot down.

Do you have anything to back this up please? I should open another topic I suppose but since you are here

[Seaplanes]

Sorry, I can not help you on that one.

[RT]

No losses of Bf109 in that area on 21.st, noch in 20. th


Rémi