Re: Looking for Belgian Researchers

[Bandlaw Charlie]

Hello.

I tried about a month or so ago to hire the help of a keen Belgian researcher/historian regarding a lancaster crash at Leuven in May 1944. I'm writing about the crew, so the loss of this aircraft is important to me and the story.

Sadly the request appears to have fallen flat on its face. Some people suggested I contact historian Cynrik De Decker or Wim Govaerts. I've been trying to get in touch with Mr. Govaerts now on and off for 4 years and to date, as far as I know he's either never received any of my messages and/or failed to reply to any of them.

It's like trying to draw teeth. I understand fully that we are all desperately busy and short of time...I have two small children and a full time job to contend with...and yet I can still find time to write about 7 brave young men, four of whom were barely out of their teens....I suppose it's all a question of priorities.

Surely someone on this site can help....surely...please.

Even if someone could suggest an historical group or someone that is sufficiently interested in being my eyes and ears...if I could do it myself, I would....but I live on the other side of the World....and do not speak the local languages....

Please, if someone can help, I would be profoundly grateful. But it is genuine help I need....not half hearted help that ends with one cryptic e-mail....and weeks of silence....

Thank you for your time.

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
This info from "RAF Bomber Command Losses of the second world war 1944 "by W.R.Chorley volume 5 of a series of 9.
Hope it is of some use.
For May 1944 lost aircraft with four(4) crew killed are listed as follows.
1/2 May - Stirling III, EF259 "HA-G", 218 Sqdn.
1/2 May - Halifax III, MZ593 "MH-Z", 51 Sqdn.
3/4 May - Lancaster III, MD953 "VN-S", 50 Sqdn.
3/4 May - Lancaster III, LM531 "AR-R", 460 Sqdn.
8/9 May - Stirling III, BF524 "WP-U", 90 Sqdn.
11/12 May - Lancaster I, ME779 "AS-S" 166 Sqdn.
12/13 May - Halifax III, LK883 "OW-E" 426 Sqdn, Target Leuven, 4 Killed, 1 POW, 3 evaded, F/O Doubt helped by Madame Anne Brusselmans.
19/20 May - Lancaster III ND689 "KM-O" 44 Sqdn.
19/20 May - Lancaster II LL641 "JI-K" 514 Sqdn.
21/22 May - Lancaster III ND976 "KM-R" 44 Sqdn.
21/22 May - Lancaster I DV365 "UL-Z2" 576 Sqdn.
22/23 May - Lancaster III JB546 "LE-A" 630 Sqdn.
22/23 May - Lancaster III ND745 "A4-D" 115 Sqdn.
22/23 May - Halifax V LL138 "KN-N" 77 Sqdn.
24/25 May - Halifax III LV918 "NP-O 158 Sqdn.
24/25 May - Halifax III LW124 "AL-N" 429 Sqdn.
24/25 May - Halifax III LW137 "AL-K" 429 Sqdn.
27/28 May - Halifax III LK811 "QO-N" 432 Sqdn.
31 May/1 June - Lancaster III LM427 "CF-G" 625 Sqdn.

I have not looked for updates or additions that there may be within the later volumes.

Could your aircraft be Halifax LK883 ?

In case I misread your mail, there is:
11/12 May - Lancaster III ND951 "WS-Z" 9 Sqdn. Crashed at Wilsele (Brabant) in the northern outskirts of Leuven, shot down by Night Fighter, All crew killed.
27/28 May - Halifax III LW365 "ZL-W" 427 Sqdn. crashed at Lovenjoel (Brabant) 7 km ESE of Leuven, shot down by Night Fighter, All crew killed.

Is there an Australian or a personal connection with the crew ?

Good luck
Alex

[Luc Vervoort]

Hi !

We exchanged several e-mails regarding the crash in question. As far as I could trace back my last e-mail (dated June 13, 2013) remained unanswered.

Here in Belgium the majority of the people which are doing research regarding the airwar are fulltime employed and some of them also have young children...

Approx 4 000 - 5 000 planes crashed in Belgium during World War II, so there is plenty of research to do.

Best regards from Belgium

Luc

[Bandlaw Charlie]

Thank you Alex for your e-mail. No, there's isn't a personal connection, nor were any Australians on board (that I was aware of).
As I've already mentioned, I am tying to write about the crew in question to contribute to a book on Bomber Command.
I'm trying to get a hold of a like-minded researcher that can make some inquiries on my behalf about the circumstances of the crash. To locate the site where the plane came down. To see if any local inhabitants remember the night in question.

Luc, it's quite possible that your e-mail ended up in my junk mail (it's a hotmail account) and while I thank you for your help, I'm still no closer to finding a contact in Belgium that is prepared to help me 'on the ground'. That was my original plea....I've already accessed several archive facilities in Britain and in Canada and while there is interesting information to be found, it still doesn't clear up the question of why the plane crashed.....

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Maybe this will be of some use.
The Tony Woods section on the 11/12 May 44 Night Fighter Claims.

Night: 11-12. May 1944
R.A.F. Bomber Command: BOURG LÉOPOLD, BOULOGNE, HASSELT,
LOUVAIN
JaFü I. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich:

11.05.44 Oblt. Fritz Lau 4./NJG 1 4-mot.

�� N.W. St. Trond: 3.500 m. 23.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.65

12.05.44 Ltn. Schmitz 4./NJG 1 4-mot. Flzg.

�� W.S.W. Rotterdam: 2.000 m. 00.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.66

12.05.44 Oblt. Heinz Rökker: 25 2./NJG 2 4-mot. Flzg.

�� 20-50 km. N.W. Brussels: 4.300 m. 00.23 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.28

12.05.44 Hptm. Ernst-Wilhelm Modrow 2./NJG 1 Lancaster

�� 15 km. S.E. Goes: 4.200 m. 00.26 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.86

12.05.44 Oblt. Hermann Greiner 11./NJG 1 Halifax

�� 30 km. S. Antwerpen: 2.200 m. 00.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.206

12.05.44 Uffz. Schwenke 4./NJG 1 4-mot. Flzg.

�� N.W. Hasselt: 2.500 m. 00.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.67

12.05.44 Oblt. Heinz Rökker 2./NJG 2 4-mot. Flzg.

�� Zeebrügge See: 4.000 m. 00.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.29

12.05.44 Fw. Stork 1./NJG 2 4-mot. Flzg.

�� Zuid Beveland: 3.000 m. 00.46 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.13

12.05.44 Ofw. Giessübel 2./NJG 2 4-mot. Flzg.

�� 30 km. N.E. Brussels: no height 00.42 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.30

12.05.44 Oblt. Werner Baake 2./NJG 1 Lancaster

�� 28 km. N.E. Huckhofen: no height 00.42 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.87

12.05.44 Ltn. Hanneck 6./NJG 1 4-mot. Flzg.

�� JJ-JH: 2.800 m. 00.48 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.45

12.05.44 Uffz. Tugmann 4./NJG 3 4-mot. Flzg.

�� Brügge: 4.000 m. 00.48 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.60

12.05.44 Oblt. Heinz Rökker 2./NJG 2 4-mot. Flzg.

�� 05 Ost S/2234: 3.000 m. 00.49 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

12.05.44 Hptm. Ernst-Wilhelm Modrow 2./NJG 1 Lancaster

�� HF in See: 4.000 m. 01.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.88
12.05.44 Uffz. Breugel 4./KG 51 4-mot. Flzg. �� Bredstedt: 100 m. 02.38 noch C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.2

All the Best,
Alex

[ClinA-78]

Hello,

I have no child but running mad for time (and crashes) too!

Unfortunately I am too far from Louvain/Leuven to search for witnesses, which is a demanding task especially in order to interview old people in another language (the aircraft crashed in the Flemish speaking part of Belgium). But I would have been happy to help you.

You should write to the towncouncil of Leuven, hoping a local researcher or an historical society may help you.
It seems the bomber crashed in the surrounding of the bombed target, perhaps you may find some info's in a damage report or so. Did you check the Comète-kinship association about the EVD?

Best regards

ClinA-78

[Leendert]

From your post a month ago I gathered that you're foremost interested in the loss of Lancaster ND951.
The bombings of Leuven (or Louvain in French/English/WW 2 usage)
are covered on the internet, although mostly in local Dutch/Flemish and more often than not a reference is made to the collision ND951 reportedly was involved in.
Since the bombings were around midnight and with the existing curfews for the population, I very much doubt if anyone other than some German military could have witnessed what may have happened in the air.

See e.g.
http://users.skynet.be/kkrol/Belang/bommen.html where also the bombing deaths of Belgians is discussed.
Under "Leuven, 12 mei 1944" there is a witness account, but as experienced from the cellar of an abbey.


Also see http://www.aviationheritage.eu/nl/co...s-z-nd923-ko-c with pictures of the grave sites for the bomber crews of the two Lancasters that crashed at Wilsele near Leuven, including ND951.


Regards,

Leendert

[Bandlaw Charlie]

My profound thanks for everyone that has offered their help and advice. It means a great deal to me and will hopfully make the story that much more accurate.

A member of this group has offered to make some simple enquiries on my behalf....so that is wonderful.

Thank you once again.

[Luc Vervoort]

Hi,

Have you received my e-mail from yesterday, as I haven't received any reply ?

Best regards from Belgium

Luc