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Old 20th September 2019, 20:30
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Unknown Emblem on Bf-109E

This picture has been knocking around for decades, but as far as I know, no one has identified the unit. I think its in Russia circa 1942.
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File Type: jpg BF109_Emblem_Rusia_1001.jpg (87.9 KB, 83 views)
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Old 20th September 2019, 21:36
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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Re: Unknown Emblem on Bf-109E

It's an emblem from I./JG 52, most likely 1.Staffel, used in 1941/42. You can find more details in a short chapter on I./JG 52 unit markings in JFV 12/II, p504 pp with some more photos.

KR

Jochen Prien
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Old 20th September 2019, 21:52
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Unknown Emblem on Bf-109E

Hello,

in Luftwaffe im Focus Edition No. 19 (2012) the editor Axel Urbanke is holding a different view. In his opinion it was the emblem of 3./JG 52 beyond any doubt.

Regards
Leo
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Old 20th September 2019, 22:21
sidney sidney is offline
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Re: Unknown Emblem on Bf-109E

The aircraft is a Bf 109 F-2, and long-time ago, there was a prolonged discussion on the old LEMB, and Axel Urbanke, uncharacteristically, participated stating that beyond any doubt this was a 3./JG 52 emblem. That was his opinion, probably still is. I disagree with it - to me it was the 1./JG 52 emblem.
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Old 20th September 2019, 22:28
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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Re: Unknown Emblem on Bf-109E

Leo,

please see what we have laid out on this issue in JFV 12/II; you will see that Axel's statement simply does not stand up to facts. 3./JG52 used the "shot-through-umbrella" emblem in 1941 and 1942 as is evidenced by meanwhile numerous photos whereas Axel, unaware of this, claims that the umbrella emblem was a singular exception. The actual problem is the fact that we have four Staffel badges for I./JG 52 for this period which cannot be positively explained. Whereas 2./JG52 used exclusively the former Gruppe emblem, the running boar, and 3./JG52 used the shot-through-umbrella, there are two emblems for 1st Staffel, the one we're discussing here and another one showing an eagle with a battered RAF roundel in its fangs. The intriguing thing is that there are several a/c showing a combination of the aforementioned emblems of 1 and 3 Staffel. Like I said - it's all laid out in JFV 12/II.

KR

Jochen Prien
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Old 20th September 2019, 22:55
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Unknown Emblem on Bf-109E

Hello Jochen,

thank you for your statement. I have only pointed out that Axel has a different view. Your arguments in JFV 12/II are convincing.

Regards
Leo
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