Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 2nd October 2019, 04:20
esc201faem esc201faem is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 27
esc201faem is on a distinguished road
Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Hello
I am re posting this request about this particular Spitfire, since I had some success in a previous case.

Also we know that the ORB for No.71 exit but what happened to the other records of No.71 eagle squadron ,are there in the RAF o the british national archives?

I am trying to find out the complete letter markings for the Supermarine Spitfire MK.VB W3801, that was flown by the American P/O. Eugene Q.Tobin of No.71 Eagle Squadron, who was shot down and killed on September 7, 1941 near Boulogne, he was victim of a BF-109 from JG26.
His aircraft was Presentation Spitfire POPOCATAPETL I from Mexico, I need to complete XR-???

Any help would be most appreciated

v/r

Santiago A.Flores
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:01
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,198
Frank Olynyk is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Santiago,

This is going to be difficult to track down. The aircraft was assigned to 71 Sqn on September 2, 1941, and lost on Sept 7. Norman Franks' Book RAF Fighter Command Losses Vol. 1 does not give the squadron codes. I checked a few online references to the aircraft, and none give the code. Perhaps it can be found in the Air Britain book on Presentation Spitfires, but I can't lay my hands on the book at the moment.

Enjoy!

Frank.
__________________
Civilization is the most fragile ecology of all.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2nd October 2019, 15:58
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 8,256
Chris Goss is on a distinguished road
Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Unless in the ORB (& Frank says no), the only other way is logbooks & according to Frank this will be unlikely
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2nd October 2019, 16:42
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,211
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Santiago

Tobin's Spit W3801 seems to have been Popocatapetl II (not I), at least according to Gifts of War (Air Britain's book about Presentation Aircraft)
This book gives no individual code letter either.

Have you also considered the possibility this aircraft actually never carried any individual code? As Frank says, it was in use with 71Sq only 6 days when it was lost. When/where was aircraft unit marked? Personally I have no idea, but there are a few shots of aircraft without such letters, and with an aircraft with such a short life, well, I don't think it can be entirely ruled out, could it?

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2nd October 2019, 17:30
esc201faem esc201faem is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 27
esc201faem is on a distinguished road
Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Hi Stig
good morning and to all .....

Another thing to consider if the Name POPOCATAPETL was applied to the aircraft when it came out of the factory before going out to the MU and them No.71.

Also are there German reports of the recovery of Eugene Tobin remains and his aircraft?
Does anybody has contact with his Family .
I did not find any flights (test) recorded in the ORB of 71 not even a test flight before going into combat on 7 September 1941.

So I anything is on the table that POPO flew with o without squadron markings.

Are there other document (not the ORB) on 71 that are at the National archives?

the quest continues.........

Santiago
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2nd October 2019, 18:25
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,736
edwest2 is on a distinguished road
Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

For what it's worth, here is a list of Presentation Spitfires.


https://fyldebbmfund.wordpress.com/g...ion-spitfires/


Best,
Ed
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2nd October 2019, 18:34
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 8,256
Chris Goss is on a distinguished road
Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

The F540 wouldn’t record training or test flights
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2nd October 2019, 22:45
dp_burke dp_burke is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dublin
Posts: 545
dp_burke is on a distinguished road
Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

The AIR81 file for Dowlings aircraft that was lost that day might include a referenece to Tobins aircraft.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C16924550
__________________
regards
Dennis Burke
Foreign Aircraft in Ireland 1939-1945
http://www.ww2irishaviation.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 4th October 2019, 03:18
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 2,040
Franek Grabowski
Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

You can try to check the ORB for the pilots flying the aircraft, and then to try to locate their log books. Nonetheless some squadrons are a real nightmare for serial/code tie ups. Eg. all records pertaining to No 307 Sqn Defiants all list serials. All three or four tie ups were identified from pictures.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 4th October 2019, 09:39
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 8,256
Chris Goss is on a distinguished road
Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Sadly there appears there was never any firm guidance as to recording serials & codes in F540s. As most of us have found out, some recorded codes & no serials, some partial serials, some full serials and some both. It would appear that 71 Sqn fell into the penultimate category

Last edited by Chris Goss; 4th October 2019 at 23:28. Reason: Minor typo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others... Nikita Egorov Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 230 22nd February 2014 13:33
Luftwaffe losses, Rhubarb opeartion 19/09/1941 Bernard Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 20th November 2008 02:25
Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 19/09/1941. Bernard Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 30th October 2008 16:25
F-22s make mark at Red Flag Pilot Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation 12 3rd May 2007 08:32
VVS divisions Mike35nj Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 7th August 2006 14:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net