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  #11  
Old 5th October 2019, 05:44
Alex Smart Alex Smart is online now
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

From what I have read, it would seem normal that for a Squadron to have the code and a/c in Squadron letter on its a/c especially for the Squadrons first sweep over enemy country. But there are always exceptions I suppose.

The other point I would mention is the JG26 claims for the engagement.

They claimed 6, but only 5 were witnessed (confirmed ). Taking into account that the Luftwaffe AFAIK had a rigorous system for confirming claims for e/a's.

Obstlt. Galland - confirmed.
Uffz. Schick - over Channel.
Uffz. Bohn - confirmed.
Fw. Leibold - confirmed.
Only. Muncheberg - confirmed.
Hptm. Schmidt - confirmed.

It would look like over claiming, but perhaps not as there could well have been more than one strike on the spitfires., only three being lost.
How many Spitfire's were involved on the operation ?
Is it known how many returned with damage ? maybe some of these were wrongly claimed in the heat of battle ?

Alex
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  #12  
Old 6th October 2019, 01:04
esc201faem esc201faem is offline
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Hello Alex

From what I have 11 a/c from No.71 participated in the sweep, but 3 aircraft returned early, (Bono, Mauriello and Crowley)leaving 8 aircraft , of these 3 reported lost (2 pilots KIA Tobin and Nichols and 1 pilot POW Fenlaw) a fourth aircraft Dowling came back damaged and crash landed. two claims were submitted for one BF-109 destroyed (Petersen) and one damaged BF-109 (Fessler)

where exactly did Tobin crashed ,so far everybody saying a hill near Boulgne sur Mer what is the exact location of the crash site.

cheers
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  #13  
Old 6th October 2019, 01:14
esc201faem esc201faem is offline
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Hello Alex

11 spits MKVB from No.71 but 3 turn back early
12 spits MKVB from No.111
12 spits MKVb from No.222

What Circus was this?
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  #14  
Old 9th October 2019, 02:41
Alex Smart Alex Smart is online now
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Many thanks, so of the 11 71 Sqn a/c ( the ORB for this date has 12 a/c taking off ), 3 turned back early leaving 8 a/c. Of these 3 were lost to enemy action and 1 crash landed on return. So only 4 ( or 5 ?) 71 Sqn a/c returned safely.

Looks like Fessler flew twice that day,, makes him the 12th man

AB812 - MEARS.
AB811 - FESSLER
AB783 - MURIELLO
AB907 - CROWLEY
W3509 - McPHARLIN
W3627 - PETERSON
AB815 - DOWLING
W3801 TOBIN
AB909 - NICHOLS
AB875 - BONO
AB900 - FENLAW
AB811 - FESSLER second flight later in the day.

Thanks
Alex

Last edited by Alex Smart; 13th October 2019 at 01:53.
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  #15  
Old 10th October 2019, 04:41
esc201faem esc201faem is offline
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Hello Alex

Thanks for the note , now my question what happened to Fenlaw, he does not have a grave and so from the accounts that I have read so far, don't mention what happened to his aircraft and him. Galland claimed a Spit about 20 mile away (over the sea or land?) and Kurt Bohn claim one close to Boulgnen (sic) I have already requested the material on Dowling for the national archives Kent. Any suggestions and recommendations would be thankful

cheers
Santiago
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  #16  
Old 13th October 2019, 02:37
Alex Smart Alex Smart is online now
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Hello Santiago,
Correct, he has No Known Grave.
Most likely he went down over the English Channel following combat with Bf109's.
Whatever the cause was we may never know, unless the a/c wreckage is at some future date discovered.
It may well be discovered that he remains with the aircraft. Then again he may have got out or even baled, and lost at sea.

Oddly the ORB page I saw has time up and next column time down which has 1610 in the box then in brackets ( missing).
Strange a time down is given, could that be the time the a/c was actually lost or is it entered in error ?
Others more knowledgeable may be able to expand upon this for us ?

Alex
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  #17  
Old 16th October 2019, 10:26
Smithy Smithy is offline
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

As rightly pointed out Fenlaw has no known grave. The combat was a very confused affair with 71 and it's not unlikely he was killed in the initial bounce. None of the others saw what happened to him. Tragically he had only just gotten married on the 21st August and had been with the squadron only since the 2nd May.

In terms of serials and individual aircraft code letters, 71 really isn't the best for matching them. For example only 22 codes and serials have been able to be matched for 71's Vbs, not terribly many when you consider how many were used over the period when they were in operation up until the transfer. The individual aircraft code for Tobin's W3801 is unknown and as of now no photo is known to exist of the aircraft during its short time with 71.

Tim
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  #18  
Old 20th October 2019, 01:18
Alex Smart Alex Smart is online now
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Hello,
Apart from a/c serial number and a/c in Squadron code letter match up's. What I found surprising was the number of pilots that flew with 71sqn.
Somewhere I had previously read that some 250 American Airmen had flown with the Eagle Squadron's.
But as I searched only 71 Squadron I so far have at well over 100 pilots names.

Alex
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  #19  
Old 20th October 2019, 11:52
Smithy Smithy is offline
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

105 men served as, or were attached to 71 as, pilots.

245 Americans served with the 3 Eagle Squadrons.

The best book dealing with biographical information on the subject is Philip Caine's "The RAF Eagle Squadrons" 2009. Bit pricey now but well worth it for anyone with a specific interest in the Eagles.

Tim
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  #20  
Old 20th October 2019, 20:46
Alex Smart Alex Smart is online now
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Re: Red Tobin No,71 POPOCATAPETL I

Hello Tim,
Have checked my list, it included duplicated names and some ground staff who were I believe not American.
So it also includes some RAF officers too.
Total I came too is sadly only 96.

P/O. Keogh, V.C.
P/O.Morantz, N.
P/O.Alexander, J.K.
Sqn/Ldr.Woodhouse, H. del.C.
P/O.Bono, V.R.
P/O.Dunn, W.R.
P/O.Raymond, G.A.
P/O.Taylor, K.S.
P/O.Daymond, G.A.
F/Lt. Peterson, G.C.

P/O.Fenlaw, H.S.
P/O. Fessler, M.W.
Sgt.Stone, G.V.
P/O.Mannix, R.L.
P/O. Wallace, T.C.
P/O.Flynn, J.V.
P/O.Scarborough, R.O.
P/O.Tribken, C.W.
P/O. McColpin, W.
P/O. Mauriello, S.A.

P/O.Cowley, J.J.
P/O.Coen, O.H.
P/O.Roscoe, A.F.
P/O.Anderson, N.
Sqn/Ldr. Meade's, S.T.
P/O.Potter, E.M.
F/O. Nomis, L.S.
P/O. Lynch, J.J.
P/O.Sprague, R.S.
P/O.McPharlin, M.G.H.

P/O.Helgason, J.F.
P/O.Gray, J.A.
P/O.Strickland, H.H.
F/O.Anderson, S.M.M.
Sgt. Seaman, A.J.
P/O. McGinnis, J.L.
P/O.Anderson, P.R.
P/O.Kolendorski, S.M.
P/O. Inabinet, W.B.
P/O.Driver, W.R.

P/O.Weir, W.J.
P/O.Orbison, E.E.
P/O.Teicheira, G.
P/O.Zavakos, F.A.
P/O.Nichols, W.H.
P/O. Chatteron, L.A.
P/O.Mays, B.F.
P/O.Atkinson, R.H.
P/O.Olson, V.W.
P/O.Leckrone, P.H.

P/O.McGerty, T.P.
P/O.Taylor, W.D.
F/O.Tobin, E.Q.
GRP/Cpt.Peel, J.R.A.
P/O. Morris.
P/O.Bateman, C.E.
P/O.Geiger, W.D.
P/O.Geffene, D.
F/KT.Gilbert, H.T.
P/O.Miluck, E.R.

P/O.Stewart, H.L.
P/O.Dowling, F.P.
P/O. Daniel, G.C.(RCAF).
P/O.Andrews, T.J.
P/O.Vosburg, M.S.
F/Lt.Walker.
P/O.Kelly, J.M.
P/O.Marting, H.F.
P/O.Hollander, N.J.
P/O.O'Regan, W.T.

P/O.McMinn, R.D.
Sgt. Anderson,S.M.
P/O.Helgason, G.
F/O.Four, J.G.D.U.
S/Sgt.Morgan, W.B.
P/O.Lavakas, F.G.
Sgt.Brite, W.O.
Wng/Cdr. Duke Wooley.
Sgt. Evans, J.E.
P/O.Clark, J.A.

P/O.Hopson, A.H.
P/O.Ross, G.G.
P/O.Witlow, G.H.
2Lt. Hively, H.D.
1Lt. Lutz, J.F.
2Lt. Mills, H.L
2Lt. Boehle, V.A.
2Lt.France, V.J.
2Lt.Beeson, D.W.
2Lt.Priser, R.L.

2Lt.Harrington, J.C.
2Lt.Boock, R.A.
2Kt.Care, R.C.

So do you have the others ?
Alex
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