Who shot down a fighter plane at April 8th 1945 in Black Forest

[Rolfeb]

Hi All,

based on an eye withness a Me 109 was shot down in a dog fight at April 8th 1945 in the area of South Black Forest. This was aSunday and because of that the eye withness is sure it was the 8th but could not define the Crash site itself. He only saw the dog fight and the shot down of the German plane - in his oppinion.
Are there any Claims that day by French or American fighter groups?

Your support is very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance

Rolf

[Adriano Baumgartner]

ROLF,

Kracker do list several losses on the 8th April 1945....but on the area you mentioned (South of Black Forest), I only found one:

Severin, Wolfgang Uffz München Riem Me 262 (lost 4/8/45)
EK 1 & 2
Fighter Operational Clasp (Silver?) KIA 8 April, 1945 during aerial combat at Herblingen. He was shot down by a P-47 of 358FG, 367FS, piloted by 1/Lt John J. Usiatynski. Severin buried Blankenburg/Harz. Source: Fritz Braun.

[GrafWolf]

Hello Adriano!

You are right! There is a Herblingen south of Black Forest! It is located in Switzerland, near Schaffhausen. The crashside of Wolfgang Severin is another Herblingen. This is located round about 12 km north of Nördlingen. This countryside is called the Nördlinger Ries.

Herzliche Grüsse aus Oberschwaben,

Wolfgang

[Dan O'Connell]

I was unaware of this Me 262 loss, thank you.

[KM1957]

Eighth and Ninth Air Force pilots claimed 38 destroyed on this date, including six Me 109's. The 354th Fighter Group claimed three near Oberpfaffenhofen A/D (2 by LtCol. Graham and one by Lt. Decklar), Lt. Broadley of the 50th Fighter Group claimed one at S-8977 (which I believe is NW of Eckartsweiler), Lt. Koontz of the 362nd Fighter Group claimed one east of Mulhausen, and Lt. Rhoads of the 12th Recon Squadron claimed one near Gotha. The other victory claims, as well as numerous probable and damaged (which included five 109's), were various Ju 88's, Ju 87's, FW 190's, He 111's, Me 262's, and a Siebel FH-104.

Kent

[Rolfeb]

Hi Kent,

there are several Muhlhausen and there is one in France, very close to the German border, not very far from Freiburg. If Lt. Koonz talks about this Muhlhausen, it could be that he shot down the Me I'm looking for.
But this is a guess.
Thanks a lot in advance
Rolf

[Stig Jarlevik]

I agree with Dan

Since he doesn't know about it, no point in checking his book, so I looked inside the Avions Hors Serie Les Pertes des Me 262 and there is nothing in there either on the 8th for anyone called Wolfgang Severin

The author acknowledge the claim made by 1/Lt Usiatynski at Nördlingen.
At the same time he lists an unknown pilot from 50FG as claiming a Me 262 at/over Crailsheim (not too far away north-west from Nördlingen). Since both these claims are mentioned by Frank Olynyk, I take them as valid.
However with one very vague claim by 50FG and a far more substantiated claim by Usiatynski I would say it is still an open question who really got that Me 262.

Unfortunately no details seems to be known regarding the Me 262 lost at Crailsheim. No WNr, no code, no unit, no pilot - or with one word - nothing.

Kracker has obviously relied upon an individual called Fritz Braun (can't recall anyone with that name on TOCH) and it would be very interesting to know how this Severin was connected to a completely unknown crash of a Me 262 at Herblingen. While not really in the direction of Creilsheim, this Herblingen is at least in the general direction of that place and somehow I feel this is one and the same incident.

I tried to look in those books I have which are indexed, but no luck, no Severin. If he was based at Riem, the most obvious unit would then be JV 44 I suppose.

Since we do have a few Me 262 "aces" on TOCH I would be very happy if some of them can bring a conclusion to this mystery.

Unfortunately for Wolfgang, it does not bring any conclusion to his initial question. However if you (Wolfgang) send me your e-mail I will scan the two pages from Olynyk's book for you. There are 59 listed claims of varying degree and it takes too long for me to check each of them on a map to see if any of them fits your initial description. I hope Frank don't mind!

Cheers
Stig

[GrafWolf]

Hello gentlemen!

More information to the loss of Wolfgang Severin (unfortunally in german).
https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de...id2852911.html

The remains from Wolfgang Severin and his aircraft were recovered in summer of 2007 by the "Arbeitsgruppe Vermisstenforschung" and Mr. Uwe Benkel.
According to an eye witnes Wolfgang Severin and his 262 were separeted from the other aircrafts of his wing by several P-47. His aircraft was hit and dived nearly vertical into a hill at 3.30 pm.

Herzliche Grüsse aus Oberschwaben,

Wolfgang

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Wolfgang

Cheers
Stig

[Dan O'Connell]

Very interesting Wolfgang, and thank you. But was any trace of the WNr of the Me 262 found in the wreckage?