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Old 10th September 2012, 16:52
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Looking for further crew info on two KG30 Ju88 Casualty Incidents 9 Oct 1939

Hello,

Peter Cornwell has recently revised these 9.10.39 incidents in our EoE Luft Loss/Damages/Cas DB:

"9 October 1939 North Sea Operations Add: 1./KG30 Junkers Ju88A. Broke off attack on British warships and returned to Westerland following attack by Do18 over the North Sea 60 miles west of Stavanger 7.15 a.m. Pilot wounded in ankle, rest of crew unhurt. Aircraft damage state not recorded. (Weiss)

9 October 1939 North Sea Operations Add: 3./KG30 Junkers Ju88A. Engine damaged by naval AA fire during attack on British warships and crashed in the Baltic off Kamp during return flight. Pilot baled out and believed rescued unhurt, BO Fw Werner Tillmann baled out but killed, BF Uffz Rudolf Kalitzke and BS Uffz Hans Selck both killed. Aircraft 100% write-off. (Weiss) (None found VDK)"

Does anyone have any more info on this attack, including the time of the attack on the warships & their identity in both incidents, name of the WIA pilot in item 1, or the name of the pilot who bailed out and is believed to have been rescued in item 2? These had to have both be Ju88A-1s, I believe. Does anyone have info on the a/c codes of either of these a/c?

Who can help?

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:29
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Looking for further crew info on two KG30 Ju88 Casualty Incidents 9 Oct 1939

The most precise account I know from this action on the naval point of view is there:
http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-3910-07OCT01.htm (check the date of 8 October 1939, covering the Home Fleet sortie on 8 and 9 October)

There are some times of air attack given.
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:39
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Peter Cornwell Peter Cornwell is offline
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Re: Looking for further crew info on two KG30 Ju88 Casualty Incidents 9 Oct 1939

In his usual inimitable style, Larry has 'jumped the gun' somewhat with this query. I am currently engaged in comparing the work of the late Heinrich Weiss with my own loss lists compiled for use in the EOE project and noting discrepancies. As such, these two entries were tentatively added to reflect what Weiss has documented pending further checks. I am well aware that Chris Shores Fledgling Eagles (1991) mentions one and gives the 3 Staffel pilot as Oberlt Konrad KAHL but as I had this loss listed the previous day (based on the QMG Returns) I had attached caveats. Having now considered all the evidence available I am satisfied that the entry stands on 9 October 1939 as follows:

3./KG30 Junkers Ju88A-1 (0033). Crashed in the Baltic off Kamp during return flight engine damaged by naval AA fire during attack on British warships 4.45 p.m. FF Oberlt Konrad Kahl baled out and rescued unhurt, BO Fw Werner Tillmann baled out but killed, BF Uffz Rudolf Kalitzke and BS Uffz Hans Selk both killed. (None found VDK) Aircraft E6+OH 100% write-off. (Matti)

Nevertheless, any further information of these two losses and assistance in arriving at a correct version of events will be appreciated.
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Old 10th September 2012, 22:16
lilsis lilsis is offline
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Re: Looking for further crew info on two KG30 Ju88 Casualty Incidents 9 Oct 1939

Hi,

In VDK Selk is under 08.10.1939

Nachname:Selk
Vorname:Hans
Dienstgrad:Unteroffizier
Geburtsdatum:05.01.1915
Geburtsort:Wittelbach
Todes-/Vermisstendatum:08.10.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Rügen
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  #5  
Old 11th September 2012, 21:50
cbe2009 cbe2009 is offline
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Re: Looking for further crew info on two KG30 Ju88 Casualty Incidents 9 Oct 1939

I asked about this Uffz. some years ago. Providing it is the same Selk or Selck, he may have flown as a BS but was in fact a pilot in this unit. 3./KG 30.
I thought that KG 30 wore 4D as its tactical number

Please see attached scans.

Kind regards,

Christian
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Last edited by cbe2009; 19th September 2012 at 18:16.
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Old 12th September 2012, 11:15
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Peter Cornwell Peter Cornwell is offline
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Re: Looking for further crew info on two KG30 Ju88 Casualty Incidents 9 Oct 1939

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for the excellent additional information on Uffz Hans SELK. I cannot vouch for the crew positions as stated - I do not have the NVM and these details originated from the records of the late Heinrich Weiss. But the statement that SELK may have been FF is noted with interest and agrees with WASt information previously provided by Matti Salonen a well-known and respected member of this forum. Matti lists this as a III./KG30 loss on 8 October 1939 (the date of death of SELK as recorded by the VDK) and notes it was on a Heimatflug rather than the Feindflug on 9 October 1939 described by Weiss. The QMG Returns record the loss to I./KG30 on 9 October 1939 during a sortie over the North Sea with all four crewmen, including Oberlt KAHL, reported missing.

4D was certainly the unit code for KG30 but the aircraft serial and codes as currently listed were also provided by Matti whose information is usually reliable. Hopefully, he may add his own comments to this thread but if anyone can offer further data on this loss I would be grateful.
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Old 14th September 2012, 07:27
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ju55dk ju55dk is offline
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Re: Looking for further crew info on two KG30 Ju88 Casualty Incidents 9 Oct 1939

Here is another page from Selk's Wehrpass wich clearly states that he was killled due to an accident. Also there is only listed 1 Feindflug in Poland, with 10(See)/LG 1.

With kind permission from Christian.

Junker

Last edited by ju55dk; 18th August 2017 at 08:31.
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Old 14th September 2012, 09:49
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Peter Cornwell Peter Cornwell is offline
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Re: Looking for further crew info on two KG30 Ju88 Casualty Incidents 9 Oct 1939

Many thanks Christian. Again, the weight evidence shifts in favour of an accident on 8 October 1940 rather than an operational sortie the following day. What is needed to resolve this case is the KTB for I./KG30 or a higher command unit. Anyone ?
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Old 15th September 2012, 18:47
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: Looking for further crew info on two KG30 Ju88 Casualty Incidents 9 Oct 1939

I have not seen a NVM for this. My info comes from a separate loss document, which was found with life insurance correspondence. Will try to dig out this document by mid-October. Will come back to this thread, if it reveals more details.

Matti
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