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Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation before the Second World War.

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  #1  
Old 26th January 2021, 00:40
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Photos Early French Aircraft

Hello,


Currently on ebay are a series of photos of early French aircraft, some from the Concours Miitaire of 1911. I'm completely out of my depth here, so while I've made a few guesses any descriptions can be regarded as entirely provisional and are usually based on the sellers description :




REP ??


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PHOTO-DE-PRE...gAAOSwQ8ZgDyOa


Astra


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PHOTO-ORIGIN...MAAOSwPHFgDwbb


Canard Blard


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PHOTO-ORIGIN...oAAOSwQ-NgDxYA


Farman Lance Torpilles (?)


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PHOTO-ORIGIN...UAAOSwtHRgDxIR

Farman MF.2


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PHOTO-ORIGIN...EAAOSwhf1gDwWS


Farman HF.6 (?)


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PHOTO-ORIGIN...wAAOSwoW5gDxub

Deperdussin


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PHOTO-ORIGIN...8AAOSwYodgDyFl


Monoplan Sorel (?)

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PHOTO-ORIGIN...AAAOSwzkVgDx-n

Regards,


Clint
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  #2  
Old 26th January 2021, 10:39
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photos Early French Aircraft

Hi Clint

Most of them pretty correct (I think)

When checking my main source (Opdycke - French Aeroplanes before the Great War) this is what I can come up with

REP Monoplan de Cours
Astra CM
Blard Canard 1912
Henri Farman type (nothing called Lance Torpilles in Opdycke)
Farman MF.2
Henri Farman HF.6
Deperdussin single-seat monoplane (not the later TT but possibly model T)
Borel Monoplane

Cheers
Stig
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  #3  
Old 26th January 2021, 10:59
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photos Early French Aircraft

Hi Stig,


Thanks for all those. I'm having one of those head slapping moments with the 'Sorel' Doh! The Lance Torpilles intriguing isn't it. It actually does appear to be the name, though it certainly can't describe the function Here's another link:


http://lapatatesacreedumachupichu.bl...-mai-1912.html


Regards,


Clint
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  #4  
Old 26th January 2021, 15:01
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photos Early French Aircraft

Hello,


Here are another two french machines from ebay:


Farman 1910


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Photo-stereo...EAAOSw53tgD8kl


Latham Antoinette


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Photo-stereo...oAAOSwVEVgD8e6


Regards,


Clint
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  #5  
Old 26th January 2021, 18:30
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photos Early French Aircraft

Well Clint

If it is any consolation with regard to 'Sorel', the penny didn't drop too fast with me either....

The Farman 1910 looks pretty much like a standard HF.III

I presume you know that Latham was the pilot and flew most of the Antoinette company's aircraft both at home and abroad.
Most certainly he contributed to the ongoing success of the various types by giving ideas etc, but he cannot be classified as a true designer/manufacturer.

Cheers
Stig
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  #6  
Old 26th January 2021, 23:02
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photos Early French Aircraft

Thanks Stig,


Fancy taking a crack at this one? :


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PHOTO-ORIGIN...oAAOSwXQtgEF6o


True, its not French, but definite Farman ancestry I think, as also has the Albatros MZ.2 behind it.I assume its German, but perhaps not.Some of the sellers photos are taken in Bulgaria.



Regards,


Clint
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  #7  
Old 27th January 2021, 00:18
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photos Early French Aircraft

Hi Clint

Not sure what the front aircraft really is. Probably an evolution of the Farman HF.III by Albatros, but have too little to compare with. Herris is not very useful here....

The one behind looks more like the Albatros F.III to me

Cheers
Stig
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  #8  
Old 27th January 2021, 01:06
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photos Early French Aircraft

Hi Stig,


Albatros F.III is new to me. Anything on the net?


I worked by way through the early B types in Kroschel & Stützer for the aircraft in the forground but nothing seems to fit. That nacelle is very distinctive while still appearing typically Farman. Could the machine and crew be something other than German perhaps?


Regards,


Clint
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  #9  
Old 27th January 2021, 12:07
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photos Early French Aircraft

No, that one is an oddity.

I got the F.III designation from the four aircraft which went to Bulgaria.
To me they look like a further development of the F.II version.

As you know Albatros begun with simply copying the Farman HF.III and added various nacelles to that basic frame, put it on floats etc.

What we really need is a German expert who would do something useful for their aircraft types before the Great War.

Cheers
Stig
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  #10  
Old 27th January 2021, 12:23
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photos Early French Aircraft

Hi Stig,


I was looking at the MZ.2 last night. It has vertical struts in the Gitterrumpf (sorry minds a blank at the moment as far as the english word is concerned). I believe I'd be correct in saying that the Bulgarian machines, which I've also seen described as F.2 have diagonal struts. If the Bulgarian machines differed from the standard F.2, insuch a manner to justify a seperate desigationas F.III in what way? Given that the F.2 was essentially a Farman F.III,is this the origin of that designation?



Regards,


Clint
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