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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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I and II/ZG2 11 August 1940
Hi guys
Not sure whether this has been previously discussed, but do we know the identities of the ZG2 pilots (and their gunners?) who claimed the 17 victories credited on 11 August 1940? I have the following from various sources, but ............. Stab I/ZG2 Obsltn Frederich Vollbracht ? Hurricane Oblt Wilhelm Schäfer Hurricane 1./ZG2 Uffz Siegfried Becker 2 Spitfire/Hurricane Ltn Gerhard Granz ? Hurricane 3./ZG2 Oblt Harald Zimmermann ? Hurricane II/ZG2 Ltn Hans Schmid Hurricane Any information will be helpful. Cheers Brian |
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Re: I and II/ZG2 11 August 1940
Luftwaffe claims for the Portland attack were way over the top with Stab/ZG 2 claiming a Hurricane and a Spitfire (which you have incorrectly listed as Stab I/ZG 2), 7 Hurricanes & 4 Spitfires for I/ZG 2 and 2 Hurricanes and 2 Spitfires for II/ZG 2. The total claims for the day for Luftflotte 3 was 57 which was then upped to 59! I have no more names
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Re: I and II/ZG2 11 August 1940
Thanks again, Chris
Perhaps you, or John, can help with the following. please. It's purported to be an extract of Wilhelm Schaefer's account of 11 August: I'll now supplement tills with my own personal experience. The' Stab' (Staff Flight) machines of ZG 2, flown by Gescbwader kommodore Oberstleutnant Friedrich Vollbracht, and Geschwaderadjutant Oberleutnant Wilhelm Schaefer with Bordfunker Oberleutnant de Wilde, flew this mission with the Staff Flight of 1. Gruppe, ZersfOrergeschwader 2 under Major Otto. So, according to the above, Schaefer was the pilot and Oblt de Wilde his observer. But, John records in his excellent Zerstorer book that Schaefer was the observer in Oblt Gunther Hensel's aircraft! Something is amiss, methinks! Perhaps this has been discussed previously? Cheers and thanks Brian |
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Re: I and II/ZG2 11 August 1940
I'm aware that John has deposited the bulk of his research material so is now probably unable to respond to such a specific query. Your translation of SCHAEFER's written account of events on 11 August 1940 is correct and we deliberated this very question most carefully almost exactly 16 years ago. Our conclusion was (and remains) that he was simply mistaken in recollecting DE WILDE as his Bordfunker on that sortie. Thus, I currently show this loss as follows:
Stab ZG2 Messerschmitt Bf110C-2. Shot down by fighters during escort sortie to Portland and ditched in the Channel 25 km north of Cherbourg. FF Oberlt Wilhelm Schäfer (Geschwaderadjutant) wounded in left arm- took to dinghy and rescued by Seenotdienst, BF Oberlt Günther Hensel (Geschwader NO) missing. Aircraft 100% write-off. |
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Re: I and II/ZG2 11 August 1940
Many thanks, Peter
That's another small mystery solved! Cheers Brian |
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Re: I and II/ZG2 11 August 1940
Brian,
What has to be borne in mind is that the Namentliche Verlustmeldungen returns by Geschwaderstab and I. Gruppe ZG 2 at that time were horrendous for later researchers, in that it was impossible from those returns alone to match aircrew. What came into the mix in this instance was Schaefer's account of having a non-flying officer of the unit, De Wilde, along for a taste of combat action. A huge problem in separating fact from fiction, and tying things up, Pilot-to-Bordfunker wise. Contrast this to the 110 losses of Erpr. Gr. 210 on August 15th, when the Nam Vers have Pilots & Bordfunkers neatly connected by a simple reference on the return. There is more than one example of two officers flying in a 110, and the records not stating who was pilot and who was doing Bordfunker duties.
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Re: I and II/ZG2 11 August 1940
John
Good to hear again from a fellow East Anglian! Thanks for the information and explanation. I hope you're still scribbling and not just twanging! Cheers Brian PS: I played the Triangle in my junior school's band! |
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