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  #1  
Old 22nd March 2019, 20:07
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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B-17 Gremlin

Picture of a B-17F fuselage with a great drawing and the name "Gremlin".

Can anyone identify? Early use olive drab. Notice the cannon holes in the windshield.
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  #2  
Old 23rd March 2019, 03:01
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
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Re: B-17 Gremlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaki3152 View Post
Picture of a B-17F fuselage with a great drawing and the name "Gremlin".

Can anyone identify? Early use olive drab. Notice the cannon holes in the windshield.
This looks like scene in March/April 1943 in France.

Horst Weber
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Old 23rd March 2019, 03:30
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: B-17 Gremlin

390BG/569BS
43-38274
MACR 11117
24 the December 1944
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Old 23rd March 2019, 03:43
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: B-17 Gremlin

Delivered Cheyenne 15/7/44; Kearney 25/7/44; Grenier 8/8/44; Assigned 569BS/390BG [CC-M] Framlingham 10/8/44; Missing in Action Zellhausen 24/12/44 with Bob Fackelman, LeRoy Schwab, Herb Burger, Irving Gutov, Walter Burd (5 Killed in Action); Gene Weishan, Bob Clark, Jim Carter, Harry Samsel (4 Prisoner of War); flak hit, spun down and exploded, crashed Weisbaden, Ger. Missing Air Crew Report 11117. GALLOPIN’ GREMLIN.
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Old 23rd March 2019, 03:55
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: B-17 Gremlin

Hello Ed,
Thanks for the crew and a/c name detail re " Galloping",
B17 nose art/name directory has 43-38274 listed twice.
"Gallopin Gremlin" (The) On page 26 and as "Gremlin" on page 28.
There are several other "Gremlin" and "Gremlin's" listed.
Serial numbers listed are -
42-3145 - B17F -DL - Ditched in English Channel 6 Sept,43.
42-29850 - B17F -BO - RFC Walnut Ridge 29 December 45.
42-5904 - B17F-VE - Crash landed in UK19 September 43.
42-30595 - B17F - BO - Fuselage cut down and vehicle windscreen fitted/open cockpit. Salved 24 June 46.
44-6106 - B17G - DL - To RFC Kingman 18 November 45.
42-30204 - B17F -BO - Mia 29 November 43, MACR 1581.
42-97603 - B17G-VE - Switzerland 27 May 44 - MACR 5266.
42-29755 - B17G-VE RFC Walnut Ridge 27 December 45.
42-3120 - B17F-DL - BU Phillips Field FD,28 September 44
44-83863 - B17G-DL - Eglin AFB Museum 1975 .
42-102933 - B17G-BO - Crash landed 12 December 44(?) MACR 11340 "Queenie".
42-3400 - B17F-DL - Force landed on return Stuttgart 6 September 43, salvaged.
43-38602 - B17G-BO - RFC Kingman.
42-3043 - B17 - Ditched North Sea 17-8-43.
42-29973 - B17 - Crash landed in UK, 31-8-43.
41-24444 - B17 - Rtd USA, Salvaged 19-6-46.
43-37703 - B17G-BO - 384BG/544BS - MACR 11764 - 22-1-45.
42-37982 - B17G-DL - 384BG/544BS - MACR ? - 19-9-44.
42-31203 - B17G-BO 385BG/548BS - Mia Pas De Calais, 28 February 44 - MACR ?

Ref: The B17 Flying Fortress History by Roger A. Freeman.

All the best
Alex

Last edited by Alex Smart; 24th March 2019 at 03:39.
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Old 23rd March 2019, 12:42
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: B-17 Gremlin

Not sure 43-38274 is correct. This was a B-17G and to my eyes this looks more like a B-17F
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Old 23rd March 2019, 13:16
RSwank RSwank is offline
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Re: B-17 Gremlin

I agree it is a B-17F and not a B-17G. The Gs had the chin turret and this one does not.

I am not a B-17 "expert" but there are a few clues to consider.

It appears to have the bulge for the navigator's dome. Early Fs did not have that but later models did. It does not have the rectangular "side" windows right next to the navigator's dome either.

It does not have the cheek gun bulge in the side window which appeared on late model Fs.

It still has some metal supports in the front nose. Front guns have been removed.

The whole top turret appears to be missing and the right-side life raft has been removed from its compartment. Are the men part of a salvage crew?

I am thinking it is a mid to late model F. I suspect some B-17 experts may be able to narrow it down even further.

It appears to me that possible part of the name (or maybe the whole original name) was painted out above the word "Gremlin". At first I thought the "blotch" was done by a censor but if you look at the seams running through the blotch it is clear that it is actually painted out on the plane, not a censor blotch on the photo.

I don't see any evidence of the plane having burned in the photo.

Some drawings which show features being discussed:

https://www.markstyling.com/3ADJPEG/B173ADCu-03.jpg
https://www.markstyling.com/3ADJPEG/B173ADCu-01.jpg
https://www.markstyling.com/1ADJPEG/B171ADCu-21.jpg
https://www.markstyling.com/1ADJPEG/B171ADCu-23.jpg

The pipe (or lack thereof) that comes out just behind the pitot tube may be another clue (assuming Mark's drawings are accurate ;-)

Last edited by RSwank; 23rd March 2019 at 16:05.
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Old 23rd March 2019, 15:15
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: B-17 Gremlin

Thanks RSwank for your usual and perceptive comments. I agree it has to be a B-17F. There was another photograph which only showed the "Star and bar" on the side.

With the publicity given to Gremlins in WWII, it stands to reason that many planes were named Gremlin or some derivative.

AS to the possibility that part of the name was painted out, I think this is almost certain.
Perhaps the full name offended someone and the first part was painted out.
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Old 23rd March 2019, 18:06
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: B-17 Gremlin

Side of bomber. Note same seller
Red outline to national insignia indicates June- September 1943
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Old 23rd March 2019, 18:15
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
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Re: B-17 Gremlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSwank View Post

I agree it is a B-17F and not a B-17G. The Gs had the chin turret and this one does not....

...Are the men part of a salvage crew?
Good evening

Most of the men wearing old-style German Army uniforms. So I don't believe that this is a salvage team with the exception of the young man out of the Co-Pilot window.

Perhaps a German army unit on a training mission came alonside the space and they made a memory photo at the salvage spot.

On my opinion, the photo was taken in France, Belgium or the Netherlands in early 1943 or early 1944.

Horst Weber
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