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Old 20th January 2018, 13:45
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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American volunteer pilots in France in 1940

Hello, while working on the case of Alfonso Segraves/Seagraves (see my other thread here), I checked two books on the Eagle Squadrons. Well he never joined these units, but both books had the same citation (probably copied from one to the other) that amazed me:

They say that 32 American volunteer pilots arrived in France to join the French Armée de l'Air in spring 1940, and that in the following campaign 4 were killed and 11 captured. 5 went to England and 12 are supposed to have returned to the US.

It is the first time I heard of them, and I am rather surprised, having read a lot about this. Given their late arrival, I doubt these airmen, if they existed, joined operational units, even if some used American aircraft so they could already be trained on them.

While some could have been killed in training or other rear area duties, or in ships while trying to evacuate, I can't figure how 11 could have been captured. When the campaign ended there was still a good part of Southern France free of invasion and so no reason for a French air school to be captured.

Another possibility is a mix with casualties suffered by American serving in the French Foreign Legion or American volunteer ambulances.
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Old 20th January 2018, 21:51
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: American volunteer pilots in France in 1940

Hello,

Don't know but wouldn't it have had something to do with these airmen perhaps been seconded to the FAF or perhaps attached due to the erection of American a/c and the training of French airmen that were to fly the American a/c then being entered into French service, such as the Glenn Martin, North American (Texan), Douglas and Curtis Hawk ?
Would this also predate the "request" that was made for "volunteers" to go to Great Britain's aid ?

Or perhaps they were of French-Canadian origin and thought to have been "American"?

Alex
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Old 20th January 2018, 23:41
Orwell1984 Orwell1984 is offline
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Re: American volunteer pilots in France in 1940

Some information here:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=8dg...201940&f=false

This plan was the brainchild of Charles Sweeny, who was attempting to form another version of the Lafayette Escadrille in France during 1940. Some of the men he recuited later escaped from France and flew in the Eagle Squadrons Sweeny was also involved in forming. Men like Eugene Tobin, Andrew Mamedoff and Vernon Keogh all went to France first before they ended up in the UK, flying with the RAF. The situation in France was such that they never had a chance to contribute to the struggle, the casualties being a result of the confusion in France at the time rather than actual combat losses.


Some more information on Sweeny who led quite the life:
https://www.antipodean.com/pages/boo...?soldItem=true

Details of his French recruiting can be found in this book:


https://www.amazon.com/Charles-Sween.../dp/1476669945
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Old 21st January 2018, 11:44
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: American volunteer pilots in France in 1940

Interesting book, still from what I manage to find using Amazon and Google, it gives the number of four killed, but without name.

Still, one man killed on 8 is a huge number, even in the confusion in France. By this stage of the war, American newspapers certainly reported each dead American (for example, a boy from German-American nationality was killed by a RAF bomb in Germany on 4 July 1940) so four should have at least be partly reported.

From what I read, in late 1940 the men who had managed to reach Paris were in an hostel, not members of the French airforce yet. So they were civilians, from a neutral country: why would Germans capture them ?
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Old 21st January 2018, 19:31
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: American volunteer pilots in France in 1940

They say that 32 American volunteer pilots arrived in France to join the French Armée de l'Air in spring 1940, and that ( in the following campaign 4 were killed and 11 captured. 5 went to England and 12 are supposed to have returned to the US ).

Hello,
From the above quote, take it to mean later in the war.

From Tony Holmes book American Eagles(USAAF Colours 1), page 32. The numbers are the same.
11 Americans qualified to wear the BoB clasps, but only one survived the war.
Come the 10th July just one of the 4 "Yanks" who had been serving in Fighter Command at the start of the war remained in the front line, F/O. Carl Raymond Davis.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/c...-carl-raymond/
Tobin and Mamedoff had originally signed up to join the conflict in Finland so with the end of the "winter war" they headed to France instead. At some point they met up with Keough and the three then spent some time retreating from Paris to Bordeaux at last getting a ship to England. Because of the new US laws the British advised them to get to Canada where they may be able to join the RCAF.But pleading their case through an MP they were eventually excepted for the RAF from the 5th July 1940.
Fiske who was already RAF and killed was possibly one of the 4 mentioned as killed, prior to 71 Sqn being formed. Then again perhaps he was not recognized as one of the 32 mentioned because he was already RAF .

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/c...mead-lindsley/

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/c...on,-otto-john/

Alex

Last edited by Alex Smart; 21st January 2018 at 20:26.
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