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  #11  
Old 23rd October 2011, 11:17
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

Hi Kim,
On what have you based the identification of the type of aircraft? How intact is the wreck ? Can one see the unit identification or serial nr.?
bregds
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  #12  
Old 23rd October 2011, 12:30
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

Several He219 losses show aircraft with a three man crew, with a gunner carried, on earlier models was this a field modification. If so is it possible that an MG 15 could have been fitted, which if this aircraft is a He219 would explain one of these weapons being found. As far as I could see the only known loss in the sea off Denmark was the G9+AK (3 man crew killed) on 1-6-1944 off Muldbjerb, but this is off the east coast. The crash location has also been described as off the mouth of the Lymfjordes is this the same as off Muldbjerb?
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  #13  
Old 23rd October 2011, 15:07
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ju55dk ju55dk is offline
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bines View Post
Several He219 losses show aircraft with a three man crew, with a gunner carried, on earlier models was this a field modification. If so is it possible that an MG 15 could have been fitted, which if this aircraft is a He219 would explain one of these weapons being found. As far as I could see the only known loss in the sea off Denmark was the G9+AK (3 man crew killed) on 1-6-1944 off Muldbjerb, but this is off the east coast. The crash location has also been described as off the mouth of the Lymfjordes is this the same as off Muldbjerb?
Yes it's the same location. But this wreck was partly recoveres by the Luftwaffe. And the third man was not a crewmember, but a mechanich, who they carried along on for the short stay at Aalborg-West. As there was no service personnel at Aalborg trained to service the He 219.

Junker
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  #14  
Old 23rd October 2011, 15:13
MarcMichael MarcMichael is offline
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

There were two experimental samples, the He 319 and He 419 V1, with a MG 15 as "Attrape" , was later equipped with a stronger mount.

Page: 46

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17332572/W...erman-Language

The test squadron was stationed at Rechlin.

Nachtjagdgeschwader 200
The squadron was often used for training and test flights, such as for the Y-process at Rechlin.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...Gliederung.htm

I doubt it but myself.
None of the 155 series machines of the Heinkel 219 was armed with an ancient MG 15.
This was introduced in 1942 only to the airfield defense, the Army Luftwaffendivsionen or in old aircraft types.

The Heinkel 219 had an armament between 4 MG 151 and MK 103 or MK 108 (Maschinenkanonen).

Last edited by MarcMichael; 23rd October 2011 at 16:16.
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  #15  
Old 23rd October 2011, 20:18
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Kim Christiansen Kim Christiansen is offline
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

To RSwank:
In front of the plane we found one seat , half of the plane is covered by sand !!!

To Junker:
I am trying to get some photos, soeren are looking as well after informations !!!

To SeS:
I will contact you by your website !!!

To Brian B.
Thank you for your informations, It is a HE-219 for sure, we know the one from Muldbjerg, this is a new unknown !!!
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  #16  
Old 24th October 2011, 16:28
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Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

Dear all and hello (again) Kim

First of all, the planned A-5, 3 seat He219 was never built in any substantial quantities as suggested by several publications but...

1) from the very beginning, the design of the He219 envisaged an emergency seat (Notsitz) in the rear fuselage as can be seen in the He219A-0 handbook.
2) the first unit who tried a field modification, was the II./NJG 1 in Deelen. In some of the He219's received from the I./NJG 1 in Venlo, the aft entrance door (behind the weapons bay alias Waffenwanne) was replaced by a plexiglass panel (and perhaps a short barreled MG too, the documents I have are not very specific about that).
3) Heinkel also envisaged a 3 seat cockpit, one in a tandem configuration, one in a wider concept and the assignment of a He219 for this planned V-34 was no sooner than February 1944 (Wnr. 190112). The second planned 3 seats He219 (V-23) effectuated not earlier than April 1944 but the modification job was started in June 1944.
4) as far as I can recollect from a recent mail to Kim, almost all accidents with 3 and in one case even 4 victims are not related to any operational 3 seats He219 but during a rapid movement of a Staffel. I would like to remember the honourable members/readers of this discussion board that not every Fw190 that crashed with two victims was a two seater: sometimes pilots took their 1th technician with them if a rapid tactical movement was neccessary.

What remains is a most interesting find of a He219 in Danish waters for which no documentary evidence or loss report has popped up so far. So an identification of the wreckage will hopefully a new addition for the still expanding database of known He219's.

All the best, Marcel Hogenhuis / Venlo
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  #17  
Old 24th October 2011, 17:24
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

Junker thanks for the clarification on third man carried on the G9+AK on 1-6-1944.
Marcel looking in the Schiffer publication on the He 219 page 99 says that II/NJG1 modified some of their 219s as you describe even fitting a MG 81Z in this makeshift ventral position. Looking through the losses I have for extra men carried there are 2 losses carrying a Ist Wart, one carrying a Ist Wart and a Waffenwart. The only combat loss I have with a three man crew is the G9+LP on 21/22-6-1944 Oblt. Hager landed safely at Eindhoven after his Bf Fw.von Bergen was killed in combat and Bordschutze Fw.Korschgen baled out.
As you say it is hoped Kim's find can be identified,

Regards

Brian Bines
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  #18  
Old 24th October 2011, 17:43
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Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

Hello Brian,

Yep, thanks for reminding me, this Wnr. 210903 was one of the few Rostock produced A-0's and directly delivered from Rostock to the II./NJG 1, converted there "in the field" to a 3 seats configuration. On 11th July this and most other He219's of the II./NJG 1 were handed over to the I./NJG 1. They later transferred Wnr. 210903 to the Schulstaffel NJG 1 in Grove, were it was found after VE-Day. It ended up in the USA as FE-612.

All the best, Marcel
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  #19  
Old 24th October 2011, 19:32
Tony Kambic Tony Kambic is offline
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

The NASM HE-219 does have a compartment in the rear fueslage, accessed via a bottom panel. There is no plexiglas or window of any type. There is not really a seat in compartment, but instead restraining harness and belt. Restoration staff believes the compartment was only utilized for radar calibration flights.
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  #20  
Old 24th October 2011, 19:53
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Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!

Hi,
Could we try to keep the tongue in cheek and stick to the subject before this discussion assumes the nature of X-Files. AFAIK the NASM bird is FE-614.
I am still awaiting some sort of confirmation that the wreck found by Kim is in fact a He219, a photo of a He219 unique part would do wonders. Or just a photo of the MG 15 magazine.
kind regards
SES
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