A20 shot down end of 1942 near El Alamein

[gilles collaveri]

Dear all, ladies and gentlemen,

I am trying to identify an A20 (or a DB7) that was shot down by the German end 1942 near El Alamein.

I was shown pictures of a burning wreck of an A20 that was shot down and destroyed end 1942, near El Alamein battle, in Cyrenaique.
German soldiers are around, aircraft is totally dismantled by the crash, there are the bodys of two crew members who have been killed in this event,
early marks (star) appear on a wing but no serial number and no visible marking.

can somebody help identify ?

TIA

GC

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Could it be 41-3012, December '42, French Maroco ?

Then again it is more likely to have been AL436, MACR 51, 31st December '42. four crew killed.

Alex

Ref: AAIR.Fold3.

[Leendert]

Gilles,

Here's another picture with "El Alamein 1942 A-20 Havoc/Boston", but here the a/c is still more or less in one shape...

See http://www.panoramio.com/photo/16376462#

If US, then 27th or 47th BG most likely.

Regards,

Leendert

[Frank Olynyk]

There were no US A-20s involved with El Alamein. The only US bomb group in 9th Air Force at this time was 12th BG, flying B-25s. 340th BG joined 9th AF about April 1943, also flying B-25s.

The only USAAF A-20 units in the MTO were 15th BS, and 47th BG, both part of 12th Air Force, and operating in Tunisia from Nov 1942.

So this is either an RAF aircraft, or the caption of El Alamein is wrong.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Details from MACR 51.
AL436
Location: Youks-les-Bains, French Algeria.
XII BC, 15 BS.
Point of Departure: Thelepte, Fr. Algeria.
Intended destination: Sousse, Tunisia. Mission, Bomb.
31/12/42 - 15.30 - Location Sousse Harbor.
Hit by flak, seen diving towards the Harbor.
Crew of 4 - All Kia.
On detached service to 47th Bomb Gp(L).
Pilot - Capt. Clifford (NMI) Her - O- 431288 - New York.
Bomb/Nav - 2Lt. William S. Randolph - O- 885362 - Tennessee.
Rad/Gnr - S/Sgt. Earl A. Glatz - 6915644 - Ohio.
Armorer/Gnr- Sgt. Jechiel (NMI) Mostow - 11024325 - Massachusetts.

Alex

[gilles collaveri]

Leendert,
it is not this aircraft ("mine" is really destroyed)

Frank,
it is definitely an US A/C. So, the caption El Alamein my be wrong. It could be somewhere else in Cyrenaique.

Alex,
how get more info on this 41-3012 ?

Thanks guys

Gilles

[gilles collaveri]

oups !
Alex, I had not seen your last message.
Could be that A20 indeed..
GC

[Alex Smart]

Hello GC,
Last seen diving towards the harbor.
That may not mean that it went into the water.
So keep mind open.
The wreckage may also have been recovered from the water ?
Then again it may well have been a French or even an RAF or SAAF a/c ?
41-3012 you may be able to contact Craig on the AAIR site and purchase a copy of the accident report.
Alex

[Kaiyan]

Hi, I think this might be Z2302 an RAF Boston as soon as I can remember how i'll post a couple of old ebay pics..

[Frank Olynyk]

15th Bomb Squadron lost three A-20s on Dec 31, 1942. AL436 was last seen over Sousse Harbor, as described in MACR 51. The crew of 4 is still carried as MIA (or KIA/BNR). A second A-20, serial unknown, was also last seen over Sousse Harbor; crew of three (or four?) also still carried as MIA. A third A-20 was lost when damaged by flak, and made a forced landing. I have no details on the crew, even as to how many. The first two A-20s cannot be the one shown in the photograph. The third A-20 is an obvious candidate.

Any completely destroyed A-20 would have to be one of the first two A-20s, recovered from Sousse harbor.

Enjoy!

Frank.