Messerschmitt 110 loss - May 1940, Sercus, France

[Andy Saunders]

Approximately two years ago the wreckage of a Messerschmitt 110 was recovered at Sercus, France. Local information has it that the loss occurred "immediately prior to" the Germans coming through on the ground. Further, we are told that one was dead in the crash and the other baled out. Evidence (a flying boot) certainly indicated at least one fatality. There was heavy shrapnel damage through the wing spar web that looked like a flak hit or HE cannon impacts. Possibly the latter pointing away from a RAF aerial "kill". One engine was stopped at time of crash - the other running. Suggestions have been made that this was possibly one of the ZG1 losses on 26 May 1940 and this seems a logical possibility. Yesterday, when wreckage was being examined, the Werke Nummer 2889 emerged.

Whilst this helps not a bit in tying the Werke Nummer in to a specific loss, I wonder if there are any forum contributors who can add any more details about 2889?

I should add that Peter Cornwell has identified it as a C-2 and one of a small batch of eight built by Focke-Wulf in Noember 1939. Any additional information would be welcomed!

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hallo !
Is a pilot recognised?
I have 3 losses on that day in France, Clalais area.

Bf 110 C (Gr.T.O) Oblt. Konrad Martin K Fw. Herbert Kraft K
Bf 110 C Ltn. Werner Kleinecke K Uffz. Otto Schamberger W
Bf 110 C Ltn. Georg Wolfle K Ogefr. Martin Hoffmann K

All s/d in combat RAF fighters.

[Andy Saunders]

Evgeny.

It is just possibly one of those three, although other possibilities cannot be excluded. I am afraid that we simply have no further information, only that we have now identified the Werke Nummer of the wreck. It would be nice to add in more detail and identify a unit and crew. I suspect this is all a bit of a long shot, and we will probably just be left knowing the W.Nr and nothing else. However.....I'd love to be proved wrong!

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hi Andy!

Very sadly, but I have only fiew W.Nr.'s for all losses of ZG1 in 39-40, just 3 or 4. And almost all the losses are stated as just "Bf110 C" without any specific modifications.

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Evgeny

A most intruiging question, even my Bf110 File (8508 records) has no answers ! However, Lt. Werner Kleinecke was wounded, not killed and was posted to the I./NJG 1 as Adjudant of its commander Werner Streib late 1941. Kleinecke survived WW-2.

All the best, Marcel

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

This Bf 110 was C-2 model mnufactured in Bremen by Focke Wulf in November 1939. Stammkennzeichen either BO+AD or BQ+AD.

There are two losses that could be the one. One at Calais with
Bf 110 C (Gr.T.O) Oblt. Konrad Martin K who is listed as KIA
and Fw. Herbert Kraft K who is listed as WIA or at Ostende
Bf 110 C Ltn. Georg Wolfle K who is listed as KIA
Ogefr. Martin Hoffmann K who is listed as WIA

Unfortunately not much more.

Regards,

Norbert

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Did some more checking the code is BO+AD. BQ+AD belongs to a Bücker.

Regards,

Norbert

[Andy Saunders]

Thank you for the input here Norbert, Marcel and Evegny.

All we know is that at least one crewman died by the evidence of the remains of one Luftwaffe flying boot found in the wreckage. Local information stated that one was killed, the other baled out. However, it is not safe to place absolute reliance on local information - especially after 70 years. In this case, though, it is all we have. We were also told that it happened not long before the Germans came through on the ground and I think that, at least, is pretty reliable information. Evidence in the wreckage of heavy-duty shrapnel damage (at least, damage that was not caused by RAF .303 impacts) was found in the wing spar. That is as much as we have!

[Evgeny Velichko]

Very interesting thread, gents!

Marcel - do You mean 8000 entries over DAY zerstorer or all built Day and night zerstorer (together with aufklaerer)?

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Evgeny,

As I was composing an answer to you about your question about the Bf 110 C-6, after some time it was neccessary to log in and my long answer was gone...

In my Bf 110 database I did store ALL Bf 110's (ZG's / NJG's / Aufkl. units / flying schools, transfer units etc.) I have found so far in the detailed Gen.Qm.Luftwaffe Abt.6 loss records, known production blocks, (reasonably trustful) publications, Flugbücher from Messerschmitt factory pilots etc. etc.

I will try again to present a reconstruction of these alleged 12 Bf110 C-6's:

It seems that the Gothaer Waggon Fabrik (GWF) produced 2 batches of 6 Bf110C-6's:
2148 (KD+TR) : fate unknown
2149 (KD+TS) : fate unknown
2150 (KD+TT) : fate unknown
2151 (KD+TU) : fate unknown
2152 (KD+TV) : 5./SKG 210, 100% on 16.12.1941 (Lw.losses Reel 4)
2153 (KD+TW): 8./ZG 26, 100% on 8.12.1941 (Lw.losses Reel 4)
---------------
2249 (NJ+ZW): 6./ZG 1, 100% on 27.2.1942 (Lw.losses Reel 5)
2250 (NJ+ZX) : Erg.Zerst.Gr. 90% on 10.2.1943 (Lw.losses Reel 8)
2251 (NJ+ZY) : 7./ZG 26, 85% on 28.3.1942 (Lw.losses Reel 5)
(2251 is also reported as a 100% loss with the St.G.77 on the 11.11.1942 but this Bf110 is reported as a D-subtype, therefore the Werkenummer might be wrong)
2252 (NJ+ZZ) : III./ZG 26, 40% damaged on 4.6.1942 (Lw.losses Reel 6)
2253 (BR+PA) : fate unknown
2254 (BR+PB) : 4./SKG 210, 100% on 18.10.1941 (Lw.losses Reel 4)
(2254 is reported in Reel 4 as a Bf110 E-6 but this subtype was never built, it is likely that it should have been noted as a C-6)

As the 1./Erpr.Gr.210 had 3 losses in August 1940 (2 on 11.8.1940 and 1 on 15.8.1940), it is likely that these losses had the Werkenummer of the first batch of six Bf110 C-6's.

Rather unnoticed by most airwar historians, is that my 'I./NJG 1' had 2 Bf110 C-6's on their inventory between (at least) March 1942 up into July 1943 ! After July 1943 these C-6's were transferred to another unit.

Conclusion: assumed that the above entries are correct, we are close to define what became of these 12 Bf110 C-6s during WW-2 and would welcome your thoughts/corrections/additional info !

All the best, Marcel Hogenhuis
www.fliegerhorst-venlo.net