5 September 1941 - Blenheim crash + ASR

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Dear all,

I am reading the book "La vieille équipe" from Bernard Dupérier and it is said that on the 5 September 1941, a Blenheim detailed for a shipping strike flew so low that its props touched water and bent. The pilot crash landed onto the Tamise "embouchure" and got to Dinghy, just to find they could stand on their feets, they were over a sand bank with water to their knees. They were later rescued, etc.

On Tony Woods 1941 RAF Claims and Loss I found no such match. And tried to google 5 September 1941 and find a match and got no joy too either to a serial number or a Squadron.

Does anyoene knows such loss or match? The author may have written wrongly the actual date though...I considered the information as the truth from him...

Thanks for any help

Adriano

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

Here is one crash of a Blenheim on 5 September, 1941:

5-9-1941
No.235 Sqn Coastal Command.
Blenheim IV R3909:LA-G.

Struck pole on night approach to Dyce in bad weather at 0430 and crashed. N.F.D.

74329 F/O Alec Ernest COOK RAFVR - Unhurt
Sgt A LUDLAM - Injured
Sgt B C GODFREY - Injured

If you mean the mouth of the "Thames", the above doesn't apply

Col.

[Alex Smart]

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C16924688

[Alex Smart]

Other losses around this date.
Z7296 - event SD by Bf109 Mazingarbe, France (?) 4.9.41.
Z7654 - event SD by flak, Crotone, Italy(?) 4.9.41.
Z5888 - event in Iraq 5.9.41.
Z9536 - event on ferry flight in Nigeria 5.9.41.

R3909 event not all that close to the Thames Estuary ?

Others
K7063 - 226 SAH for repair 5/9/41( Short Bros & Harland ).
T1877 - 102 MU Abu Sueir, 5/9/41.
Z7274 - 139 - S/d Zeebrugge, 2/9/41.
Z7306 - 226 - S/d by Bf 109 Scheveningen, 7/9/41.
Z7312 - 226 - S/d by Bf 109 Scheveningen, 7/9/41.

[Alex Smart]

To follow up, there was the chance (?) that the date could have been misread.
So would not have been 5/9/41 but was 5/9/41 ?
Not 5th September but 9th May.
In this case there would have been -
V6379 - 18 Sqn - Missing on Shipping Strike Brittany, 9/5/41, Damaged by flak and ditched.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

Dear all,
The pilot crash landed onto the Tamise "embouchure" ...

Adriano

Translated from the French: “the Thames Estuary”.

[Alex Smart]

Hello Nick,
I noted the "Thames estuary" in post 4 above.
Alex

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Dear Alex, Nick and Bruggy,

Sorry for the long delay in answering. I was travelling and without book references to add further information.

Managed to find my sample of Ross McNeill "RAF Coastal Command Losses, 1939-1941" and got no joy either in finding a match.

I do agree with some of you that probably the French Ace Bernard Dupérier mislead us onto a wrong date...Do not know if he wrote from memory or not...or cross-checking some kind of War Diary.

I tried to digitalize the relevant pages, but got 4 Mb of PDF archives, so it not gonna work...

Please do let me copy as it is (quoting), thus in French language (apologize for that with the Super Moderators), from page.44 up to pg. 46:

"Vendredi, 5 Septembre 1941

Brusquement, avant-hier., la rélève du 242 a été décidée et aujourd'hui...[pg.46] > "Ce matin il y au une grande corrida. Exercice avec les bombardiers, eux aussi nouveaux dans le secteur. Nous décollons a 8 pour escorter 3 Blenheims. Ces derniers font, dès le départ, um série de fausses manoeuvres et s'arrangent pour passer em rase-mottes au dessus d'um convoi anglais dans l'embouchure de la Tamise...[ ]..Immédiatement après, um des Blenheims, volant trop bas touche l'eau de ses hélices, les tord et se voit obligé de poser au milieu de l'estuaire, moteurs stoppés...[ ]...ils constatèrent que le Blenheim reposait sur um haut fond et qu'ils n'avaient de l'eau que jusq'aux genoux...[ ]...Mais tout est bien qui finit bien et aucun entrainement ne pouvait être plus complet et plus realiste."

One can see that it was a Training sortie, not an Operational one, and that at least 8 Hurricanes (do not know if all from Nº 242 Squadron) escorted the 3 Blenheims and that one crew touched the water flying very low and had to ditch. They managed to get into the Dinghy and were probably rescued "nearby the Thames estuary" (thank you for correcting me...I had forgotten the word estuary when I first posted, and had not time to translate it).

The very next entry onto Bernard Dupérier book is on the 19 September 1941...so probably on this gap, an accident ocurred and the crew probably was rescued, since he ends the story with positive backgrounds (it seems so).

I was trying to figure out which was the crew and the serial number of THAT Blenheim....

Sorry for the original transcription and not being able to add the 4 Mb PDF file onto the thread, so one could read it on the original writing.

Adriano B.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Maybe you can check the ORB of 242 Sqn in preview on the British Archives website.

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

Possibly:

16-9-1941
No.139 Sqn
Blenheim IV Z7363

Inadvertently flew into sea off Clacton when the pilot adjusted compass while flying at very low level.

P/O (Pilot) P. Brown
????????????????
????????????????

Crew rescued.

See:
The Bristol Blenheim A Complete History.
Warner,Graham
Manchester:Crecy,2005 (2nd.ed.).
p.376

Col.