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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
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Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
I am researching the service of my grandfather "Wally" Brown as an RAF Pilot with 298 Squadron.
I am interested in:
BRADLEY William Age: 33 2209464 Sergeant. (Flight/Eng) BROWN William, Wallace Age: 30 CAN J20649 Flying Officer. (Pilot) MacDUFF Robert, Denver Age: 26 NZ 417149 Flying Officer. (Nav) PEARSON Frederick Age: 21 1578265 Flight Sergeant. (WOP/AG) SAYLES (DFM) Francis Age: 22 52592 Flying Officer. (B/Aimer) SMITH John, Bonsall Age: 33 1496761 Flight Sergeant. (Wop/AG) Any information would be greatly appreciated. Regards. |
#2
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Re: Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
Hi, whilst waiting for the experts to come along, I presume you have the additional information from the CWGC records as below?
Name: BRADLEY, WILLIAM Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sergeant Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Age: 33. Date of Death: 31/08/1944 Service No: 2209464 Additional information: Son of Thomas and Margaret Bradley; husband of Mary Bradley, of Euxton, Lancashire. Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 225. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL Name: PEARSON, FREDERICK Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Flight Sergeant Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Age: 21. Date of Death: 31/08/1944 Service No: 1578265 Additional information: Son of Frederick and Harriet Pearson, of Wolverhampton. Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 221. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL Name: SAYLES, FRANCIS Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Flying Officer Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Age: 22. Date of Death: 31/08/1944 Service No: 52592 Awards: D F M Additional information: Son of Larrett and Clara Sayles, of Fitzwilliam, Yorkshire. Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 209. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL Name: SMITH, JOHN BONSALL Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Flight Sergeant Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Date of Death: 31/08/1944 Service No: 1496761 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 222. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL Name: BROWN, WILLIAM WALLACE Nationality: Canadian Rank: Flying Officer Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force Age: 30. Date of Death: 31/08/1944 Service No: J/20649 Additional information: Son of James Nelson Brown and Gertrude Brown, of Woodstock, New Brunswick, Canada; husband of Marion H. Brown, of Woodstock. Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 245. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL Name: MACDUFF, ROBERT DENVER Nationality: New Zealand Rank: Flying Officer Regiment/Service: Royal New Zealand Air Force Age: 26. Date of Death: 31/08/1944 Service No: 417149 Additional information: Son of Robert B. Macduff, and of Amelia Macduff, of Mount Eden, Auckland, New Zealand. Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 262. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL As F/O Brown was RCAF there may be access to the RCAF records, but others will be better able to advise on that, but at least you have some addresses that might help locate surviving relatives via Ancestry, telephone books etc. Hope this helps |
#3
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Re: Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
Hi,
I have the following taken from 'Though Without Anger' - Cummings 30 August 1944 298 Squadron Halifax V LL343 This aircraft was tasked to drop supplies to partisans near Diest at position 51.03 North 05.34 East. However, the mission was not accomplished and it seems probable that this was the aircraft seen by another crew to be shot down in position 51.46 North 05.34 East. Crew as listed above. Regards Peter Last edited by Peter Clare; 30th November 2009 at 14:31. |
#4
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Re: Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
Quote:
the reference of the crash site is interesting because my grandmother thought that the plane had gone down on land - which is where 51.03 North 05.34 East is according to Google earth. Official records as sketchy as they are indicate that the plane was seen in flames off the coast of Holland or Belgium. It will be interesting to see if anyone else weighs in on this. Regards Jeff |
#5
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Re: Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
Jeff, crashes in Occupied Territories were usually recorded by local villagers.
Today, there are many active Belgian, Dutch and French groups dedicated to the memories of the crews that helped liberate them. I'm sure you know that 298 Squadron were tasked with supplying Resistance groups and dropping agents etc. There may be some websites in Belgium that have some more details, however I would caution that most crash sites were thoroughly investigated after the War by RAF and other investigation teams, not only for the crew but cause of loss. As this crew is only recorded on the Runnymede Memorial, it is more than likely that they crashed into the North Sea. They may have been hit over land and struggled to make it to the UK, but in a similar situation, some crews would try to head to Normandy where they may have been able to parachute into the Allied zone. They didn't make the rendezvous with the resistance cell, so they may have been hit by flak ships just as they reached the coast. None of the crew was able to exit in time to be found and identified. The RCAF records may contain details of any investigation after the war and hopefully any eyewitness accounts. I'll now let others more knowledgeable add what else they may know. Regards, Kevin |
#6
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Re: Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
Thanks Kevin,
My grandmother tried for over a year to get more information. As you suggest they may have been able to make it some way before the crash. Thanks for passing this on to others who may have access to other details. Regards Jeff |
#7
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Re: Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
LL343 is not listed in the crash list 1939-1945 of aircraft crashed on Dutch territory or within Dutch territorial waters. This means that the loss was over the North Sea more than 20 kms off the coast. I've a note (unconfirmed source) that the Halifax was hit by a flakship 02.01h and crashed at the position 51.46N - 03.50E.
Regards, Henk. |
#8
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Re: Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
Thank you both for your responses. While I have been able to collect some information, icare you have added a little more detail about the crew.
Also I did not know the position of the crash. Thank you Peter. I appreciate the quick response. |
#9
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Re: Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
Contact the Canadian National Archives here. You can request an extract of his record for free or the full record for a fee.
Personnel Records Unit, Library and Archives Canada, 395 Wellington Street, Ottawa, ON K1A 0N3 Fax: (613) 947 8456 http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-909.007-e.html regards Dennis |
#10
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Re: Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944
Thanks Dennis. I will check that out.
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