Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace

[knusel]

Good morning Gentlemen,

Gerald Edge is the 7th ranking Hurricane ace with a score of 18+2sh in the type. One of his shared kills was a half-share on 9May1940. Can anybody tell me how many pilots shared in his other shared kill ?

Have a nice Sunday,

Michael

[Alex Smart]

From RAF Fighter Command Victory Claims of WW2 part 1 1939-1940.
Page 21.

43 Sqn.
Hurricane FC.
Time 11.45
F/Lt. J.W.C.Simpson - Do17 destroyed Runner Head
Sgt. O'Heavill - shared.

87 Sqn
Hurricane BEF.
Time AM.
Sgt. G.L.Now well - Bf110 probably destroyed - Maginot Line.
P/O. Dunn - shared.

605 Sqn.
Hurricane FC.
Time 11.45
F/O.Edge - Do17 destroyed NW Wick.
F/O. Austin - shared.
F/O. Hope - shared.

So were there two Do17 losses ?

[knusel]

Hello Alex,

this website
http://cieldegloire.com/002_raf_edge_g_r.php
indicates only one of Edge's claims as shared: 1/2 shäre on 09.05.1940.
Which one is his other shared claim ?
I mean, what is the date of the 1/3 shared claim in your post ?

Have a nice evening,

Michael

[Chris Goss]

There were 3 Do 17s combats on 9 May 40-one off Dunnet Head (Wekusta aircraft), Stab/KG 2 at Homburg and 4./121 which returned to Echterdingen damaged in combat

[Bruce Lander]

Hi,
The 605 History - "We Never Slept" shows that Edge shared this with F/O Austin

[Tom Semenza]

Although F/O Ralph Hope was Red 3 on this interception, the ORB indicates that only Red 1 (F/O Edge) and Red 2 (F/O G.W.B. Austin) fired on the Do 17 and shooting it down. This is related in Fledgling Eagles (page 312).

A note on Edge's claim totals: As stated in Aces High a number of the claims listed were found only in Edge's log book and are not in the squadron ORBs nor do Combat Reports exist for them. This does not mean that they did not occur, but we should be cautious about accepting these at face value.

I refer specifically to these claims:

23 May 1940 for 2 Bf 109s and 1 He 111 damaged
25 May 1940 for 1 Bf 110 (or 109) destroyed
26 May 1940 for 1 Ju 88 dest. plus another "possible" and a Bf 110 damaged
15 Sep. 1940 for 1 Do 17 and 1 Ju 88, both destroyed

In addition, the Combat Report (CR) for 25 May indicates 1 Ju 87 dest. plus one damaged (or unconfirmed) rather than 3 dest. and one "disabled". The CR for 27 May, indicates 1 Do 17 shared with 17 Sqn. rather that 2 individual claims.

With 253 Sqn. on 7 Sept. the CR and ORB indicate 1 He 111 destroyed or probably so (the CR and ORB are unclear as to which was Edge's) rather than 2 dest. For 9 Sept. rather than 4 individual claims the indication is that 5 Ju 88s were shared by 7 pilots, including Edge, as no individual claims were made. For 11 Sept. the claims for 2 He 111s dest. should be 2 Do "215"s destroyed, one half share and another shared with 8 other pilots, in addition to 1 He 111 probable and 1 Bf 109 destroyed (per Foreman in RAF Fighter Command Victory Claims).

Regards,
Tom

[Alex Smart]

Hello Michael,
In response to your question.
The question was about claim on the 9th May,40.
So it would seem he only had 1/3 claim.

But from Toms reply in which he quoted the ORB it would seem that only the two pilots actually fired on the victem, if that was the case then I find it odd that the Combat Claim Form's that were researched by John Forman would have shown that F/O. Hope had not fired at the victem ?
He must have made a claim ?
The Claim must have been approved ?

[Tom Semenza]

Alex,

I don't know from where John Foreman got his information. There is no Combat Report for Ralph Hope for that date on TNA website (nor for Austin for that matter.) Edge's combat report contains no narrative and, in addition to the usual time, date, place, etc., contains only an overlay showing the amount of ammunition expended. Link below:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7492526

Here is a link to the 605 ORB (Form 540) for May. Everyone can judge for themselves, but there is no indication that Hope fired at all. The Form 541 seems to indicate the same.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8415854

Regards,
Tom

[SteveR]

I think I found it.

AIR50/169/104

(it's listed under 605 Squadron, P/O Muirhead)

Pages 5-7 (out of 20 pages in the file) are the Combat Report for 9 May 40 from 13 Group Intelligence. It covers the interception of a pair of Do-17s by Red 1 and Red 2 of 605 Squadron (Edge and Austin) and by Red 1 and Red 3 of 43 Squadron (Ottewill and Simpson). The narrative goes back and forth between the two squadrons and if that's not confusing enough, the first full paragraph that begins on the second page begins by mentioning that Red 3 of 605 Squadron had returned to base with engine trouble and took no part in the combat.

If you don't read it very carefully...

And it certainly doesn't help that it's stuck in with reports from P/O Muirhead.

Pretty sure this is the report you'll be wanting to look at.

[Tom Semenza]

Good work Steve. The info seems to jive with the 605 ORB Form 541. F/O Hope (Red 3) took off with the others at 10:00 but returned at 11:20, while Red 1 and 2 landed at 11:55.

Regards,
Tom