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Old 28th October 2016, 16:15
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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JG 2 vs Circus N° 70

Hello

for the specialists on this forum

I try to verify the claiming of germans with the actual losses of the RAF
for example: 12/8/1941

The JG2 claimed 13 Spitfires vs Circus n° 70 between 11.43 hour and 13.16 hour.
Stab/JG2 =8 ( 5 by Oesau !)
III/JG2 =5

the actual losses of the RAF were "only" 4 spitfires??:
Sgt Russel of 485°Sq
? of 485°Sq damaged cat.2
Sgt Bell-Walker of 602°Sq
? of 602°Sq very damaged?

Archives of the RAF for that day would be incomplete??

If it's not, "you have say overclaiming" wow! overclaiming!!
It seems incredible for me that the RLM validated all these "victories"

further informations?

regards
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Old 28th October 2016, 16:48
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Kaczmarek Kaczmarek is offline
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Re: JG 2 vs Circus N° 70

Hi,

according to the list of Tony Wood the J.G. 2 had 9 confirmed victories between 11.43 and 13.08 hrs on 12th Aug 1941. Stab - 6 + 1 ASM, Stab III. - 2, 8./2 - 1.

Kaczmarek
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Old 28th October 2016, 18:13
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Re: JG 2 vs Circus N° 70

hi Kaczmarek

I have the list of Tony Wood but there is an error in the list.

the list of the claims:
Stab/JG2
Oesau 1 spit 11.43 hour
Seeger1 spit 11.45 hour
Oesau 1 spit 12.50 hour
Oesau 1 spit 12.54 hour
Leie 1 spit 12.54 hour
Oesau 1 spit 13.06 hour
Leie 1 spit 13.08 hour
Oesau 1 spit 13.15 hour

III/JG2
Hahn 1 spit 12.45 hour
Federle 1 spit 12.46 hour
Hahn 1 spit 12.50 hour
7/STAFFEL Hohler 1 spit 13.12 hour
7/STAFFEL Rietzler 1 spit 13.12 hour

and now in the list of Tony Wood p.152 Walter Holher and Friedrich Rietzler
are in the 4/STAFFEL,and p.140 (25/6/41) Holher is in the 7 STAFFEL.

regards
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Old 28th October 2016, 19:17
taitbb taitbb is offline
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Re: JG 2 vs Circus N° 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by focusfocus View Post
The JG2 claimed 13 Spitfires vs Circus n° 70 between 11.43 hour and
the actual losses of the RAF were "only" 4 spitfires??:
I dunno, seems a pretty standard ratio of claims to losses. After reading various books on the subject (although not to the level of many of the experten on here), and reading lot's of this type of analysis, 25% - 35% actual losses to claims seems pretty normal to me (for all sides of the war). It even seems in line to my much less knowledge of WWI air action.
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Old 9th November 2016, 20:59
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FalkeEins FalkeEins is offline
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Re: JG 2 vs Circus N° 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by focusfocus View Post
Hello

the actual losses of the RAF were "only" 4 spitfires??:
Sgt Russel of 485°Sq
? of 485°Sq damaged cat.2
Sgt Bell-Walker of 602°Sq
? of 602°Sq very damaged?

further informations?

regards


Russel's and Bell-Walker's Spitfires make only two losses. The other two seriously damaged were brought home by their pilots but subsequently written off.. see Roba's " Non-Stop Offensive" part II here just published by Lela Presse - he also includes for the date Rietzler's account of his Spitfire victory, his first. Both Rietzler and Rottenführer and witness Höhler were 7./JG 2 pilots

" at around 13:13 I attacked a Spitfire some thirty km north of Gravelines at around 2,000 m altitude....a wing was torn off and he plunged straight down into sea.. Lt Höhler closed on another Spitfire and gave it a long burst at close range.."

Last edited by FalkeEins; 9th November 2016 at 22:16.
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