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  #531  
Old 9th March 2010, 11:19
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

BRIAN,
Found this one, although I am sure you do have it....
Fantastic subject you will be writing on...we will be waiting for the series...
Yours
Adriano
Here it goes:
Wilhelm Steinmann was born on 15 January 1912 at Nürnberg. He joined the Luftwaffe in 1936 and trained as a bomber pilot. Steinmann served with 3./KG 53 from 1939 to 1941. He later served as Technischer Offizier with II./Fliegerkorps. He then underwent conversion training to become a fighter pilot. On 6 October 1942, Steinmann was posted to the Gruppenstab of I./JG 27 based on the Channel front. He was serving with 3./JG 27 when he recorded his first victory on 18 May 1943, a RAF Typhoon fighter-bomber shot down over the Channel. On 1 June, Steinmann claimed a RAF Spitfire shot down. However, he had made a mistake in identification and had shot down a Bf 109 G-6 flown by the Gruppenkommandeur of I./JG 27, Hauptmann Erich Hohagen (56 victories, RK). Hohagen was forced to bail out of his Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 16 391) but had been wounded in the incident.
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  #532  
Old 19th March 2010, 11:41
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Found this one today, while searching Google News for crash details in Canada

On 17 July 1943 a RCAF aircraft bombed an outdoor dance at Roseland, Manitoba, believing he was over a bombing range. A young girl was killed.

Source (1943 newspapers):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...aircraft&hl=en
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  #533  
Old 19th March 2010, 16:42
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks Adriano and Laurent

Excellent material. Keep 'em coming!

Cheers
Brian
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  #534  
Old 21st March 2010, 01:39
Observer1940 Observer1940 is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hello Brian
One for your book, it now appears from my research that one of the two RAF Whitleys which crashed into a balloon 15th August 1940 near Eastleigh was involved in a friendly fire incident before the collision and crash.

14-15 August 1940 Headquarters No.4 Group

Two aircraft fouled balloon cables and crashed on return, one aircraft shot at by friendly aircraft but no damage. The other aircraft having engine and intercom trouble.

I have traced the "other aircraft" okay in the Squadron and Station ORBs and also the No.4 Group Signal in the appendices regarding Whitley P4982 which hit the balloon barrage of 956 Squadron Langley, HQ Colnbrook.

Whitley P5044
However, the Signal for Whitley P5044 is missing in the No.4 Group Appendices.

I have had two 'phone conversations with a Mr Stenhouse in New Zealand who learnt from an August 1940 AA Battery Commander that Captain Stenhouse who is commemorated at Fawley, Hampshire was shot down and I have had another conversation with a family relative of the crew who learnt after the war from a former Serviceman in the area that the Whitley crew buried at Fawley All Saints had been in an incident and only just made it back before crashing.

I have the last 16 miles sound track plotted, the height given the Winchester Centre was 10,000 feet, but the plane [later given as a British Plane] lost height and crashed into the Balloon Barrage at Eastleigh 03.30 (RAF 924 Balloon Squadron time); 03.34 hours 35th AA Brigade / 5th Div AA HQ time and 03.35 hrs the Observer Post time.

"Ms" is entered against the C of I number on the Flying Accident Card which meant the Inquiry was "Incomplete".
Cause "F6" meaning "Loss of control after hitting or avoiding obstacles in bad visibility" was ruled out and changed to "F9" meaning "Obscure".
"F8" meaning “Miscellaneous” (was later in 1940, split into F8A - Airframe Defects and F8B - Miscellaneous).
Finally "F4" which meant "Flying into ground, sea or hills in cloud or fog" was given as the primary cause.

These being standard RAF Flying Accident Cause Groupings for analysis purposes by Air Ministry Department S4, "F" meant the accident occurred whilst "In Flight"

It would appear that the Eastleigh Balloon Barrage was being likened to a hill and the cable was struck almost immediately after the Whitley descended out of the cloud base. However, exactly what happened before Eastleigh has been a family mystery for 70 years, the Air Ministry only told the family that they flew up Southampton Water, crossed the coast near Southampton and struck a balloon over Eastleigh, but according to the sound plots they had already crossed the coast and were first plotted near Fareham, by the Observer Post. The Members of the Observer Posts at Havant; Lee on Solent and Marchwood were all called in to the Winchester Centre later in the day.

“Red Flares” a visual sign of an aircraft sending a wireless Distress signal were seen South-east of Sandown, IOW at 03.23 before the crash. Incidentally, the Balloon Barrages were raised at 03.22 hrs. The GPO Log of Casualty Calls indicates Niton received an SOS from an unknown aircraft. The August 1940 Monthly Returns of Distress Broadcasts to aircraft flying over the sea, from the GPO Director of Wireless Telegraphy to the Air Ministry indicates RAF Gosport requested Niton transmit a “Distress Broadcast” to an aircraft. Unfortunately, neither documents note the time, or any details.

The Accident was reported to the AIB (Accidents Investigation Branch) and recorded on their "U" Index which meant that there was either one, or more of the following:
Forced parachute descent
(a) Where a Court of Inquiry is to be convened under KR (Kings Regulations) 1326
(b) where the accident may in the opinion of the CO be due to:-
(i) failure of any part of the aircraft
(ii) a defect in workmanship, design or material
(iii) a part of the aircraft catching fire in the air
(iv) compass defects
(v) any obscure cause

I have tried AVIA 5/19 and 42 and only discovered that the "U" accidents list were investigated by the AIB, a few other examples I found included structural failure, catching fire and one due to bad weather.

Has anyone come across any other information about this incident in their searches at The National Archives, or have any other sources of information please?
Research by Mark R. Hood 2010.
Grandson of the Observer Sgt Hood

Last edited by Observer1940; 21st March 2010 at 10:25. Reason: addition
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  #535  
Old 22nd March 2010, 15:51
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Brian, a new case (for me), and an Italian one, with details (sadly in Italian language, but Google translated enough for me to check it may interest you)

An Italian transport BA.44 flying from Albania shot down by CR.42 on 15 April 1941: http://quandogliaereiavevanolelica.m...operativa.html
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  #536  
Old 22nd March 2010, 17:16
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks Mark - I do have this incident recorded (I have also been following your posts). But thanks all the same.

Thanks Laurent - yes, a completely new one for me also. Very grateful for your continued help.

Cheers
Brian
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  #537  
Old 23rd March 2010, 22:08
Rifleman62 Rifleman62 is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Just joined this forum. The following is a FF, air to ground. Does anyone have knowledge of this incident?

Assist in my research for the following seven Riflemen, who were killed/died of wounds, as the result of an accidental strafing by a Mustang in the town of Saint George-de-Groselliers, Normandy, France:


To provide some background information:
The seven with the Royal Winnipeg Rifles were taken prisoners by the Germans, possibly on D-Day or anytime between D-Day and June 11, 1944. Although the Commonwealth War Graves Commission lists dates of four deaths as June 8, 1944, they were definitely killed or wounded on June 11, 1944. I have an article that was written by a French priest, who attended the dead and dying. This article was written in 1964 and verifies the actual dates of the deaths.

POW's from the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, as well POW's from the North Nova Scotia Highlanders and Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa were marching in a column, four abreast, and behind the Germans, when the four Mustangs appeared. The first Mustang strafed the column. One of the POW's, reportedly, Sgt. Bob Higgins, North Novas, waved his jacket and the other Mustangs left without further shooting.

Thirty POW's were injured; of these, ten were killed and were buried in the civil cemetery in Saint Georges-de-Groselliers; and four others died as results of their wounds; three of the four were buried in the civil cemetery in La Chapelle au Moine, Normandy. A fourth who died of wounds was buried in a location yet unknown. The 14 POW's were eventually buried at the Bretteville-Sur-Laize Canadian War Cemetery, in Calvados, France.

The townspeople took great care to remove ID's and anything the men had in their pockets, and the mayor and his staff recorded each item, referencing this information to specific graves which had been dug in the civil cemetery. The records and items were kept until the war ended and the graves concentration units arrived in the area and then everything was handed over to the graves units.
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  #538  
Old 24th March 2010, 02:17
meonthebay meonthebay is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

This is an update to my first posting:

It has been recently reported that there were 39 POW's injured; 10 of whom died immediately, and 5 of the injured later dies of their wounds.
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  #539  
Old 24th March 2010, 12:02
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Found this one today, and not able to check it with another source:

On the 24th March 1943, a BF 109E (Werkn 1987) of the Frontreparatur Werk 7 Erla stationed at Deurne crashed at Boechout, Belgium. The pilot was Ofw Reinhardt Jochmann who was able to bale out, but he reached the ground wounded. This aircraft was shot down in error at 1215 hours by Ofw Detlev Lüth of JG 1.

Source:
http://www.lwag.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-1249.html
http://maps.google.fr/maps?hl=fr&source=hp&q=Boechout
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  #540  
Old 24th March 2010, 14:39
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Another interesting case: a Wellington downed by an Allied balloon barrage... after flying purposely into it !

By the way, I found two dates for Wellington P9210 destruction, 23 and 24 March 1942, and would like which one is the correct one.

Source:
http://www1.somerset.gov.uk/archives...ead_screen.pdf
(context of the loss, search P9210 and read the sentences before this word)
http://www.bbrclub.org/Tiger%20Hawkins%20AFC.htm (details of the pilot, of the crash and picture of the pilot besides the wreck)
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