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Old 11th April 2008, 01:20
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

Hello,

This is a working list that I put together from all sources available to me at present, and covers pilots who scored all or a large number of their victories with Bf110 units during 1939-40. Gentzen, for example, scored many of his early victories with the 109, but still made a number of claims while a Bf110 pilot. This only covers pilots with 10 or more victories to their credit and who served with ZG units during that period. I'm working to extend this list down to five victories, but that is not yet ready for posting. Since many of these pilots are poorly documented from a research standpoint, I thought that this might stimulate comments and additional info to further refine this list. This is part of a much larger project, a very small part of which is to fully document all the victory claims of the ZG/LG units that flew the Bf110 during 1939-40. I'm also trying to document the markings of as many of these pilot's aircraft as possible, so if you know of photos from other than standard reference sources, I'd like to hear about them. Remember, I'm only working on material through the end of 1940, which for 110 units, is essentially through the end of the Battle of Britain. If you want to provide comments, corrections of additional info to this list, please cite your sources. You can also contact me through the personal message board. Some of these pilots have also been discussed on recent posts I've made regarding lists of "aces" of some of the ZG units.

TOP SCORING Bf110 Pilots in 1939-40

1) Oblt Hans-Joachim Jabs 19 victories 6./ZG 76
2) Hptm. Johannes Gentzen 18 victories Stab/JGr 102 & Stab I./ZG 2
3) Lt. Hans Schmid 15 victories I./ZG52 & II./ZG 2 (Staffels unk)
4) Lt. Walter Manhart 13 victories 3./ZG26 & 6./ZG 26
5) Oblt. Sophus Baagoe 13 victories 8./ZG 26
6) Lt./Oblt. Eduard Tratt 12 victories 1./ZG 1 & 2./ZG 2
7) Oblt. Rolf Kaldrack 12 victories 4./ZG 1 & 7. & Stab III./ZG 76
8) Hptm. Erich Grothe 12 victories 2./JGr 102 & Stab II./ZG 76
9) Oblt.-Hptm. Heinz Nacke 12 victories 6./ZG 76
10) Oblt. Wilhelm Herget 12 victories 6./ZG 76
11) Fw. Herbert Kutscha 11 victories 6./ZG1 & 9/ZG76
12) Lt. Richard Marchfelder 10 victories Stab II./ZG1 & Stab. III./ZG76
12) Fw. Johannes Lutter 10 victories 4./ZG 1 & 9./ZG76
13) Lt. Kurt Sidow 10 victories 9./ZG 26
14) Oblt. Walter Borchers 10 victories 4./ZG 76
15) Lt. Helmut Müller 10 victories 13.(Z)/LG 1
16) Lt. Hugo Adametz 10 victories 14.(Z)/LG 1

Note: I have been unable to document the 19th victory of Oblt. Jabs, so if anyone knows the dates of all 19 of his victories, I'd especially like to hear about it..
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Last edited by Larry Hickey; 11th April 2008 at 01:24. Reason: Post lost formatting so modified for clarity
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Old 11th April 2008, 10:34
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
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Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

Add:
Fw. Walter Scherer, 10 vict., JGr 102, ZG 26, POW 25.09.40.

Quote:
Fw. Johannes Lutter 10 victories 4./ZG 1 & 9./ZG76
As far as I know, Lutter got RK 05.10.1941 with 6./ZG 1, together with his StaKa Oblt.Gunther Tonne on the same day, for 7 victories, 15 tanks and 30 aircrafts destroyed on ground.
Quote:
Hptm. Erich Grothe
As far as I know: Groth

Quote:
Note: I have been unable to document the 19th victory of Oblt. Jabs, so if anyone knows the dates of all 19 of his victories, I'd especially like to hear about it..
Quote:
12.05.40 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Hawk-75A  - 07.15 FilmC. 2031/I Nr.54623/40
13.05.40 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Morane  - 18.50 Film C. 2031/I Nr.54623/40
15.05.40 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Morane  - 14.25 Film C. 2031/I Nr.54623/40
29.05.40 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire  - 14.05 Film C. 2031/I Nr. 54467/41
29.05.40 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire  Dünkirchen: 2.500 m. 14.10 Film C. 2035/II Anerk: Nr.65
07.06.40 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Morane  - 06.20 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.54623/40
15.08.40 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire  - 18.35 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.51037/41
15.08.40 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Hurricane  - 18.50 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.51037/41
30.08.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Hurricane  - 13.00 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.53504/41
31.08.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire  - 09.54 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.53776/41
01.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire  - 14.40 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.53950/41
01.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Hurricane  - 14.45 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.53950/41
01.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Hurricane  - 14.55 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.53950/41
04.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire  - 14.07 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.54350/41
04.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Hurricane  Tonbridge: 4.000 m. 14.20 OKL C. 2035/II Anerk: ASM
04.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire  - 14.07 OKL C. 2031/I Nr.54350/41
07.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire  London: 5.000 m. 19.20 OKL C. 2035/II VNE: ASM
11.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire  S. London: 5.500 m. 17.20 OKL C. 2035/II VNE: ASM
19 25.08.42 9./NJG 3 Stirling Bremen --.-- --
17.12.42 11./NJG 1 Halifax 434 4G: 1.100 m. 22.46 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.112
17.12.42 11./NJG 1 Stirling 433 9 l: 50 m. 22.54 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.213
20.12.42 11./NJG 1 Wellington 5244: 3.600 m. 20.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.63
08.01.43 11./NJG 1 Halifax 446 9A in See: 2.400 m. 22.15 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr. -
17.01.43 11./NJG 1 Stirling 544 5H1 in See: 3.200 m. 22.17 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.216
04.02.43 11./NJG 1 B-17 545 5B7: 10.000 m. 12.51 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.221
19.02.43 11./NJG 1 Stirling 54/4 8Z6: 1.000 m. 21.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.222
19.02.43 11./NJG 1 Stirling 54/6/3G2: 1.900 m. 21.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.223
19.02.43 11./NJG 1 Stirling 54/1/9F2: 2.500 m. 21.44 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.224
09.04.43 11./NJG 1 Lancaster 443 3F: 1.500 m. 23.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.260
13.06.43 11./NJG 1 Lancaster DL-7.1: 6.200 m. [Wadenzee] 02.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.288
13.06.43 11./NJG 1 Lancaster DK-62: 6.500 m. [Texel] 03.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.289
22.06.43 11./NJG 1 Stirling FK 32: 1.800 m. 02.44 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.290
23.06.43 11./NJG 1 Stirling FK 15d: 2.700 m. 02.19 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.291
26.06.43 11./NJG 1 Halifax FK 52: 5.400 m. 02.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.295
26.06.43 11./NJG 1 Halifax EK 58: 4.200 m. 02.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.297
26.06.43 11./NJG 1 Lancaster EL 86ga: 5.000 m. 02.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.299
28.07.43 11./NJG 1 Halifax Ost CK-82h: 3.000 m. [off Vlieland] 02.50 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.303
03.08.43 Stab IV./NJG 1 Halifax CL-2.9d: 5.500 m. 03.10 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.45
03.08.43 Stab IV./NJG 1 Stirling Dl-2.6h: 2.300 m. [Waddenzee] 03.29 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.146
03.08.43 Stab IV./NJG 1 Stirling Raum "Tiger" : at 2.100 m. 03.52 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.44
24.08.43 11./NJG 1 Stirling FL 5-6: 2.400 m. 02.14 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.150
18.10.43 Stab IV./NJG 1 Lancaster Diepholz: 5.800 m. 20.07 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr. 46
03.11.43 Stab IV./NJG 1 Lancaster Gunzdorf: 5.800 m. 19.34 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.47
03.11.43 Stab IV./NJG 1 Halifax bei Niedermussen: 5.800 m. 19.55 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.48
28.04.44 Stab/NJG 1 Lancaster 2 km. S.E. Diest: 4.500 m. 02.09 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
28.04.44 Stab/NJG 1 Halifax Rotterdam: 3.800 m. 02.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Stab/NJG 1 Spitfire Mk.IX 3 km. S. Valburg: 50 m. [S.W. Arnhem] 15.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8
29.04.44 Stab/NJG 1 Spitfire Mk.IX sudl. Apeldoorn: 50 m. / Spitfire MkIX "FF-G" pilot J.Kaulton 15.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7
22.02.45 Stab/NJG 1 Lancaster near Worms --.-- --
22.02.45 Stab/NJG 1 Lancaster near Worms --.-- --
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Old 13th April 2008, 21:17
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
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Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

Larry:

about #19 victory of Jabs.

As my list shows it with 9./NJG 3, but strage, I looked now in book >Night fighter aces", and see photo of Bf110E-1, M8+IP, W.Nr.3866.

It directly shows 19 victory bars on fin.

So, that means that he had 19 victoryes with 6./ZG 76.

Weird.

I have no idea, really.
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Old 13th April 2008, 22:53
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

Hi All

I have an extract from Aircraft Illustrated Extra (issue unknown) with Jabs victory list and it differs as follows
Victory date victim
1 12.5 Hawk 75A
2 13.5 MS 406
3 15.5 MS 406
4 15.5 MS 406
5 29.5 Spit
6 29.5 Spit
7 7.6 MS 406
8 15.8 Spit
9 15.8 Spit
10 15.8 Hurr
11 30.8 Hurr
12 31.8 Spit
13 1.9 Spit
14 1.9 Spit
15 1.9 Hurr
16 4.9 Spit
17 4.9 Hurr
18 7.9 Spit
19 11.9 Spit

Must be very old since I had no "historical" background at the time myself
Cheers
Stig
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Old 13th April 2008, 23:14
robert robert is offline
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Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

Hi,

Larry the second victory from 29.05.40, claimed at 14.10, was not confirmed perhaps this is a reason for this difference?

Regards

Robert
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Old 14th April 2008, 05:49
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
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Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Hist...ictures/06.jpg

This is the photo I mean. Unfortunatly, in Web it is in bad quality. But You may have in better in some books.

The differense is - From list by Stig:
Quote:
3 15.5 MS 406
4 15.5 MS 406
and from Tony Woods list there are only 1 claim:

Quote:
15.05.40 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Morane  - 14.25
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Old 14th April 2008, 11:44
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

Hello,

Thanks for the discussion about the 19th victory by Jabs. I'm almost certain that this is the explanation for the discrepancy. So he had 18 "confirmed" victories and one "probable" as we say in the USA, to reach his total of 19 for his RK, with the "probable" never being officially confirmed.

Thanx,

Larry
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Old 14th April 2008, 19:54
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

Unconfirmed and probable are two different things.
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Old 15th April 2008, 09:34
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Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

Hi all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Hickey View Post
...So he had 18 "confirmed" victories and one "probable" as we say in the USA, to reach his total of 19 for his RK, with the "probable" never being officially confirmed...
Luftwaffe pilots never score Probable claims. Look on Walter Nowotny photo when he was captured with chield showing "Congratulations with 300th victory!". But "officialy" he had only 255 on Ostront.

They just OR confirm it (even really strange and optimistic claims as Hartmann's or Rudorffer's) and pilot could place abschussebalken on fin, OR NOT confirm it, and it was no matter how many "unconfirmed" victories pilot has - they never counts officially.

So, if as we all see M8+IP show us 19 confirmed victories, we need to find "missed" victory.

Last edited by Evgeny Velichko; 17th April 2008 at 01:28.
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Old 15th April 2008, 11:13
Kapper Kapper is offline
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Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories

Evigny

The claims of the 15/5/40 and 15/8/40 that you state as not being in Tony Woods list, I believe they are included but under Jabs Bf 'Uffz Erich Weissflog.'

15.05.40Uffz. Erich Weissflog 6./ZG 76 Morane £ Montcornet: 800 m. 14.25 Film C. 2035/II VNE: ASM
15.08.40Uffz. Erich Weissflog 6./ZG 76 Hurricane £ - 18.45 OKL C. 2031/I Nr. 51037/41

There is also another for the 15/5 for Wiessflog at the same time (14.25) but I think this is a double up.

15.05.40 Uffz. Erich Weissflog 6./ZG 76 Morane £ Montcornet: 800 m. 14.25 OKL C. 2036/I Anerk: Nr.-

In addition 2 of the claims for Jabs on the 4/9/40 are at the same time (14.07) which could possibly be a double up in Woods list.

04.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire £ - 14.07 OKL C. 2031/I Nr. 54350/41
04.09.40 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Jabs 6./ZG 76 Spitfire £ - 14.07 OKL C. 2031/I Nr. 54350/41

If you include these adjustments the total is 19 in accordance to Stigs list.


Regards,

Craig..

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