eBay: Ju87A with StG 51 emblem?

[ianatheling]

On eBay here there is a photo of a Ju 87 A. The aircraft has a stkz GT+__ which would be appropriate for the aircraft being used in a training unit. However it quite clearly wears the emblem used by III./StG 51 (and later II./StG 1). Are there any of records of these combat units still having Ju 87As post 1939, or is there another answer to this?

Ian

[obdl3945]

Hi, Ian...

The seller on e-bay has jumped the gun, again... this is not the insignia for III./St.G.1, which is a Tyrolean eagle.

This aircraft is actually carrying the Brandenburg eagle of Fluglehrerschule der Luftwaffe, K&R 684 or 789, depending on whether one has the original or updated edition.

Regards,

Paul

[ianatheling]

Yes, thanks Paul. I had noticed the different shape of the shield/eagle, but had not spotted the smaller shield on the body of the eagle. Thanks for this solution, which makes much more sense.

Cheers
Ian

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by obdl3945

Hi, Ian...

The seller on e-bay has jumped the gun, again... this is not the insignia for III./St.G.1, which is a Tyrolean eagle.

This aircraft is actually carrying the Brandenburg eagle of Fluglehrerschule der Luftwaffe, K&R 684 or 789, depending on whether one has the original or updated edition.

Regards,

Paul

Hello Paul,

Thank you for the info!
So; Since there is no aircraft list used by this unit in Michael Holm's site somebody as an idea please?
Just to avoid - in next future - comments like " Oh pilot was (most probably - sic) from Pomerania (or else since Pomerania emblem is a griffon) "
On Bf109 for example...

Thanks for any help.

Regards, Franck.

[ChrisS]

Hello Franck

Try Ketley & Rolfe old edition for the unit ID. I have images of examples of Bf-109B-2, Bf-108, Fw-58, He-111, Fw 44 and Bu-131 with this emblem. Strange that Barry Rosch does not mention this unit.

Chris

[ouidjat]

Thanks Chris,

Will try to check the BF109 pics first to compare the emblems with that one on JU87.
Next will search on torrent!!!! Good source, too!

Regards, Franck.

[Larry deZeng]

This is probably of no interest because it does not deal with codes and markings, but what the heck, here it is anyway:

Fluglehrerschule d.Lw.
KStN: 1868 (L).
Established (April? July?) 1939 at Brandenburg-Briest to train instructor personnel for the various flying schools. Training detachments (Ausbildungskommandos) were eventually set up at 6 other airfields during the war years: Altengrabow, Aschersleben, Salzwedel, Quedlinburg, Prenzlau and Fürstenwalde. Representative aircraft losses charged to the school are noted below.
11 Oct 40: Fw 44 A-9 crashed and destroyed at Altengrabow airfield.
6 Mar 41: Ju 88 A-1 crashed and destroyed at Brandenburg-Briest airfield.
23 Feb 42: Fw 44 based at Quedlinburg crashed near Friedrichsbrunn and destroyed.
1942-43: frequent crashes and accidents at Brandenburg-Briest and Quedlinburg.
9 Dec 43: Ju 52 crashed and destroyed at Brandenburg-Briest airfield, Hptm. Heinz Gebhardt and 1 other killed, Hptm. Claus Sommer and 3 others injured.
29 Mar 44: 5 Bü 181s shot down by U.S. fighters over the Wernigerode area near Quedlinburg, 1 killed and 2 wounded.
Sum 44: under 2. Fliegerschuldivision with the following organization -
Stab and the Ausbildungsgruppenstab at Brandenburg-Briest and subordinated:
Überprüfungslehrgang LF at Salzwedel
Überprüfungslehrgang LF at Prenzlau
Überprüfungslehrgang ELF at Quedlinburg
1.u.2.Techn.Kp.
6 Aug 44: a Si 204 B (70%) and a Fw 58 (15%) based at Brandenburg-Briest were strafed on the ground at Altengrabow/31 km SW of Brandenburg-Briest.
Feb 45: Brandenburg-Briest under 4. Fliegerschuldivision.
22 Feb 45: an Ar 96 B-7 destroyed during a strafing pass on Quedlinburg airfield by Allied fighters.
9 Apr 45: ordered disbanded at Brandenburg-Briest and many of the personnel were conscripted as infantry and assigned to Kampfgruppe Havelberg/Elbe.
Leiter/Kommandeur:
Obstlt. Erich van Vloten (1 Apr 39 - 1 Aug 40)
Gen.Maj. Otto Fruhner (5 Aug 40 - 9 Apr 45)
[Sources: NASM T-2/USSBS roll 7001/8178; British Air Ministry – Post Hostilities Study A.I.12/M.76; BA-MA Freiburg: Signatur RL 2 III Loss Reports; G.Tessin - Teil 14: Die Luftstreitkräfte (Osnabrück, 1980); K.Ries - Deutsche Flugzeugführerschulen und ihre Maschinen 1919-1945 (Stuttgart, 1988), S.Carlsen/M.Meyer - Die Flugzeugführer-Ausbildung der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1935-1945, Band 1 (Zweibrücken, 1998), p437.]

[ouidjat]

Thanks Larry,

No it does! At least because you are giving sources.

Regards, Franck.

[ChrisS]

Thanks Larry, at last, some kind of history for this unit!

[ouidjat]

Yes Chris!