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Old 2nd October 2011, 14:07
Observer1940 Observer1940 is offline
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GAF Crash Arbroath 'ARBIRLOT' and Others 14/15th August 1940 Night and POW Reports

The researched information which appears on here never ceases to amaze me and I was wondering please, if anyone has any files, or located any POW Reports for GAF aircraft which crashed during the evening of the 14th August 1940 and the early morning of the 15th August 1940.

One GAF aircraft at 21.30 hrs raid 81 (listed as a Heinkel III) which appeared in North Wales area was shot down near SEALAND. Does not say if there were any survivors.

One GAF aircraft crashed given at " 'ARBIRLOT' (Arbroath)" and described as "possibly raid 12 which originated 70 miles E Aberdeen at 02.55, crossed coast near Arbroath" - Three Dead and One Injured according to the Fighter Command Control Log covering 14/15th August 1940 [early 15th August 1940].

Bombs were dropped at Montrose at 03.20 hrs.

One described as "Ex Cherbourg N" Raid 173, 07.09 - 07.30 hrs and reported Dornier down 5 miles SE of St. Catherine's Point.

I expect there may have been more? I am interested in any PoW War Reports, but any information as to whether there were survivors and the possible existence or likelihood of PoW Reports would be most helpful.

Thanks
Mark

Last edited by Observer1940; 2nd October 2011 at 14:12. Reason: "crossed" spelling
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Old 2nd October 2011, 19:51
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Peter Cornwell Peter Cornwell is offline
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Re: GAF Crash Arbroath 'ARBIRLOT' and Others 14/15th August 1940 Night and POW Reports

8./KG27 Heinkel He111P-2 (2624). Shot down by W/C J. Hallings-Pott, S/L J. McLean, and P/O P. Ayerst, of No. 7 OTU following low-level attack on Sealand airfield and belly-landed at Border House Farm, near Chester, 7.45 p.m. Also intercepted by Hurricanes of No.213 Squadron. FF Oberlt Arthur Wiesemann, BM Uffz Walter Schaum, and BF Uffz Heinz Köchy all captured unhurt, BO Fw Heinrich Rödder and BS Uffz Gustav Ullmann both captured wounded. Aircraft 1G+FS fired by crew 100% write-off.
Site excavated by the Warplane Wreck Investigation Group and some charred and shattered components from the starboard engine unearthed. Some relics subsequently presented to the surviving pilot who was contacted in West Germany.

1./KüFlGr. 506 Heinkel He115C (3251). Dazzled by searchlights during night sortie over Montrose and flew into the ground at Faldiehill, Panmure Estate, 4 miles west-south-west of Arbroath, 4.04 a.m. FF Oberfw Rudolf Holfert and BF Fw Paul Schroers both killed, BO Lt zur See Hans-Eberhardt Tonne captured severely injured. Aircraft S4+BH a write-off.
The date of death of Rudolf Holfert is recorded as August 14 in the Soldatenfriedhof at Cannock Chase. Also, some accounts of this crash suggest that Lt Tonne subsequently died in hospital at Arbroath but no trace of his burial has been found. Altimeter taken at the time held by Mr George Shepherd, editor of the Arbroath Herald.

Nothing on the Dornier I'm afraid.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 23:01
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: GAF Crash Arbroath 'ARBIRLOT' and Others 14/15th August 1940 Night and POW Reports

There seems to be a WNr. conflict with the WNr. 2624 loss. One is obviously wrong. Peter, do you have any clarification for this?

He 111H-2, 2624, Fischbach, Ltn. Ernst, , III., 7., KG 53, weiße C, A1+CR, , , 30-Aug-40, POW due to Luftkampf with Hurricanes from 601 Sq. (F/L Rhodes-Moorhouse, P/O Gilbert, Sgt. Taylor & F/O Grier). Bruchlandung. 3 others POW, Hs WIA, DOW, Hs KIA., , Lfl.2/Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #1)-Vol.2; BoB, T&N, p.608; Mason, p.325; Goss, LW Bombers BoB, p.198, , The Rectory, Hunsdon, Hertfordshire, 100%, F, B Fw. Wilhelm Kusserow, Bf Fw. Georg Distler, Hs Gefr. Leo Stilp (W) & Hs Gefr. Walter Reis (K), 16.30,
He 111P-2, 2624, Wiesemann, Oblt. Arthur, , III., 8., KG 27, , 1G+FS, , , 14-Aug-40, POW with crew due to Luftkampf with Hurricanes from 7.OTU/213 Sq. (W/C Halling-Pott, S/L McLean & P/O Ayerst)., , Lfl.3/Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #1)-Vol.2; Waiss, Boelcke-Archiv, II, p.204; BoB, T&N, p.569, photos; Mason, Battle Over Britain, p.247, , Border House Farm bei Chester, 100%, F, B Fw. Heinrich Rödder, Bf Uffz. Heinz Köchy, Bm Uffz. Walter Schaum & Bs Uffz. Gustav Ullmann, 20.00~,
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Old 3rd October 2011, 10:57
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Re: GAF Crash Arbroath 'ARBIRLOT' and Others 14/15th August 1940 Night and POW Reports

Hello Jim,

There is no documented evidence, but one photo taken at the crash site of WIESEMANN's aircraft clearly (using a loup) shows '2624' painted in white on the tailfin immediately below the Hakenkreuz. This was my sole source for this detail but significantly, in light of your query, I now recognise that this has been carefully over-painted with a neat panel of dark paint but '2624' it remains beyond all doubt. I have clearly failed to spot this as a field correction.

FISCHBACH's machine is documented as '2624' in both Lw QMG Returns and the RAF A.I.1.(G) Report on its crash so there can be no doubt about that. Thanks for flagging the duplication which I had not noticed.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 20:22
Observer1940 Observer1940 is offline
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Re: GAF Crash Arbroath 'ARBIRLOT' and Others 14/15th August 1940 Night and POW Reports

Hello Peter and Jim

Thank you for the information.

My information came from the Fighter Command Appendices TNA, Kew AIR 24/527 described as "OL Watch" which I presume will be "Observer Liaison Watch" at Fighter Command, which the PRO photocopied me some years ago.

These dated "OL Watch" raid reports at "Appendix K" in the Appendices are handwritten, signed and written on the back of Controllers Reports from several months earlier [paper recycling].

The Arbroath crash referred to in these "OL Watch" records of raids appears to have occurred in the early hours of 15th August which tallys with your 04.04, but you note the Cemetery records, record the 14th.

Thanks Mark
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Old 4th October 2011, 14:19
bill norman bill norman is offline
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Re: GAF Crash Arbroath 'ARBIRLOT' and Others 14/15th August 1940 Night and POW Reports

Tonne spent time in a number of hospitals in the UK and was repatriated to Germany in 1943. After the war he emigrated to Canada. He died in Vancouver in 1993.

BN (www.billnorman.co.uk)
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Old 4th October 2011, 17:42
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Re: GAF Crash Arbroath 'ARBIRLOT' and Others 14/15th August 1940 Night and POW Reports

Bill,

Thank you for that. Most helpful.
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Old 6th October 2011, 12:25
bill norman bill norman is offline
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Re: GAF Crash Arbroath 'ARBIRLOT' and Others 14/15th August 1940 Night and POW Reports

My pleasure: nice for me to be able to help you for a change!
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Old 6th October 2011, 21:48
Observer1940 Observer1940 is offline
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Re: GAF Crash Arbroath 'ARBIRLOT' and Others 14/15th August 1940 Night and POW Reports

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill norman View Post
Tonne spent time in a number of hospitals in the UK and was repatriated to Germany in 1943. After the war he emigrated to Canada. He died in Vancouver in 1993.

BN (www.billnorman.co.uk)
Hello Bill
Thank you for the information.
Mark
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