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  #291  
Old 23rd August 2014, 20:52
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Trying to ID the correct location for AF where I./ZG2 was based during early August, 1940: "St Aubin-Thiberville, France"

Just 4 km SSW of Saint-Aubin-de-Scellon is the village of Thiberville. It is quite possible that the contraction "Saint-Aubin - Thiberville" refers to an alternate landing ground between these two villages that was never used. But it is not listed in the 38-page A.I.2.(b) Gazetteer of airfields in North and West France dated 1.9.1943 that has approximately 1,064 listings.

L.
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  #292  
Old 23rd August 2014, 21:30
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Trying to ID the correct location for AF where I./ZG2 was based during early August, 1940: "St Aubin-Thiberville, France"

Kutscha,

Thanx for your comments. I'm aware of the sources that say "Amiens-Glissy" as a I./ZG2 base during this period. However, Gerhard Stemmer says that there is no evidence that I./ZG2 was ever based there. He has provided a very detailed list of bases for 1940 that I gave in my other post relating to this subject last night. I consider Gerhard's data much more reliable information than the other sources. So we are back to trying to establish where in the St Aubin-Thiberville area the airfield was where I./ZG2 was based.

I./ZG2 is a very difficult unit as apparently most of their historical records, including most of their victory claims did not survive the war. We know less that half of those, and the "turks" (estimated) claims list created by Hans Ring have not turned out to be reliable. The detailed scores of a couple of the unit's pilots that have become known since these were compiled have served as a cross check and Ring's estimates for these same pilots have all turned out to be inaccurate . So it doesn't surprise me that even the airfield locations for I./ZG2 are also incomplete or inaccurate. With the EoE Project, we're trying to rectify this as much as we can, but the absence of data will only allow our team to take this so far.

Anyone who has items such as FB, or even NJG victory claims lists that take ex-I./ZG2 aircrew men back to their service with that unit, may be the only sources we ever have to improve the victory data for that unit. I keep hoping that someone will turn up a contemporary victory list, but as time passes and nothing surfaces, that is appearing less and less likely.

As I've posted before, we have similar problems with the 1940 victory lists for Gruppenstab and 14.(Z)/LG1, II./ZG1 (later III./ZG76), Stab, and II./ZG2 (ex I./ZG52), Stab, I and II./ZG26 and I./ZG52 (later II./ZG2), and III./ZG76 (ex-II./ZG1) making it unlikely that we will ever get an accurate and complete listing of "official" LW victory claims for the Zerstörer units during 1940. The only progress that we've made on this in several years are for individual pilots, such as Eduard Tratt for I./ZG2 and Elstermann for II./ZG2. Unless someone is sandbagging this info somewhere, a comprehensive resolution for any of these units now appears unlikely. If anyone has even individual scores from hard sources for any pilots from the units listed above, I'd sure appreciate hearing from them.
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  #293  
Old 23rd August 2014, 21:45
edwest edwest is offline
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Re: Trying to ID the correct location for AF where I./ZG2 was based during early August, 1940: "St Aubin-Thiberville, France"

Perhaps this:


http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...Frankreich.htm




Ed
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  #294  
Old 23rd August 2014, 21:47
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Trying to ID Photo location for Bf110 of Gr Kdr of I./ZG2 taken sometime in late June 1940 to 11 August 1940

Pieter H,

We can't be sure, I'm just interpreting what I see in the photos as best that I can. Blue is neither a color you would associate with a lightning bolt, nor a Gruppe color (medium green), so I've not seriously considered this. However, I'm open to other opinions about this if someone has documentary evidence, of which there is apparently little.
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  #295  
Old 23rd August 2014, 22:09
Bertrand H Bertrand H is offline
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Re: Trying to ID Photo location for Bf110 of Gr Kdr of I./ZG2 taken sometime in late June 1940 to 11 August 1940

Hi Larry,

With such shelters we can forget Neufchateau and St-Aubin.

Caen could be a serious candidate.

Must to be checked

Bertrand
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  #296  
Old 23rd August 2014, 22:50
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Trying to ID Photo location for Bf110 of Gr Kdr of I./ZG2 taken sometime in late June 1940 to 11 August 1940

Bertrand,

Thanx for your comments. I'll await some further review of your info on the other airfields.
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  #297  
Old 23rd August 2014, 22:56
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Victory dates and/or photos of Bf110 of Oblt. Harald Zimmermann, 3./ZG2, during 1940

Hello,

I'm trying to establish confirmed dates of victories by Bf110 pilot Oblt. Harald Zimmermann of 3./ZG2. At one time his score was thought to be five during 1940, but this was later revised to seven. This suggests to me that his FB may exist, or some other documentation on his service history. Does anyone have info on his career, and especially any photos of him and/or his aircraft during this period. Establishing the a/c code of any a/c he normally flew would be very helpful. I have no photos that I know of concerning this pilot for the EoE Project.
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  #298  
Old 23rd August 2014, 23:20
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Seeking info & photos of Lt-Oblt Gerhard Granz of 1 and Stab I./ZG2

Hello,

For profiling purposes, I'm seeking info on the victory list of Lt.-Oblt. Gerhard Granz, who is reported to have scored three victories during 1940, a single one during the WC/FC, and two more with the Gruppenstab as an Oblt during the Battle of Britain. I'm trying to confirm that total and the dates and locations for them.

A good photo exists of Granz sitting on the edge of the cockpit of his 1./ZG2 Bf110C, showing both the 1 Staffel and I Gr insignias on the a/c. Another, presumably from the same period, exists showing him in the cockpit of his Bf110 with the I Gr insignia below the cockpit. Unfortunately these photos do not give any information on the actual coding of this a/c, which should be 3M+_H. Does anyone know this information or have other photos of his aircraft during his career with 1 Staffel?

Another photo exists (made into a color profile in one of John Vasco's books) showing Granz and his BF, Fw Willi Schuble, beside the starboard side of 3M+BB, which would be the normal a/c for the Gr Adjutant. However, any possible victory scoreboard is not visible. Granz is believed to have achieved two more victories for a total of three by early in the Battle of Britain. As the Gruppen Adjustant, Granz and his gunner were shot down at Billericay, Essex, England, probably in this a/c, on 07.09.40. Both bailed out into captivity. The aircraft ended up a pile of junk (I have two photos of this).

1) I know it's a very long shot, but does anyone have photos of his a/c scoreboard at any time in his career with the Bf110?

2) Does anyone know if his or the FB of his BF, Schubel still exists?

3) Do any other photos of his 3M+BB exist that show a I Gr insignia painted on the side of that a/c. The photo reported above does not show one on the starboard side. I have no idea of the appearance of the port side of this a/c, and if any insignia was applied there. Note that John Vasco has kindly supplied the EoE Project all the photos that he has of Granz and his a/c.

Thanx for any help.
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  #299  
Old 24th August 2014, 01:14
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Trying to ID the correct location for AF where I./ZG2 was based during early August, 1940: "St Aubin-Thiberville, France"

According to the Luftwaffe "Air Offensive Against England" (Battle of Britain) OB found in the surviving records of 8.Abt./Genst.d.Lw. and reproduced in numerous postwar books, such as
Balke, Ulf - Der Luftkrieg in Europa: Die Operativen Einsätze des Kampfgeschwader 2 im Zweiten Weltkrieg. Teil 1. Das Luftkriegsgeschehen 1939-1941: Polen, Frankreich, England, Balkan, Russland. Koblenz: Bernard & Graefe Verlag, 1989. ISBN: 3-7637-5883-6. Pb. 526p. Illus. Maps. Numerous appendices,
page 412, I./ZG 2 was based at Caen-Carpiquet with 41 Bf 110C on 13 August 1940.

L.
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  #300  
Old 24th August 2014, 17:24
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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1940 German Painting/Poster commemorating battle

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Original-Druc...item27e9ae8ada
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