Fw 190 A-8, I./JG 301

[Schlageter]

In Squadron's "Walk Around Fw190 A/F" there is a picture of a Fw 190 A-8 "Black 9", Werknr. 737938. I'm just curious, is this the only existing picture of that plane, or is there a picture of its time at III./JG 11?
Further I'm interested, if it was equipped with the outer 20mm MG 151 and the ETC.

Thank you in advance

Michael

[Simon Schatz]

Hi Michael!

I know 2 pictures showing this plane! It's not visible if the plane had the ETC and outer MG 151.

Cheers, Simon

[George Hopp]

An intel document from August 1944 says that all A-8s left the factories with ETCs installed.

[Jerry Crandall]

Hi Michael;
W. Nr. 737938 is an Fw 190 A-8 "Blue 9" of 4./JG 301. It was not equipped with outboard 20 mm cannons. There is no ETC rack mounted visible in the 5 or 6 known photos of this a/c. However, the main fuel cell has been removed through the large access panel underneath the center of the wing. To do this, if there was an ETC rack, it would have had to be removed. Possibly this is why it is not seen in any of the known photos. By the way, this machine was equipped with a blown canopy.
Cheers,
Jerry

[Harold Lake]

Hey guys, something isn't right.
The authors claim this 190 was with JG 301, but the tonal value of what looks like two colored tail bands, suggest otherwise. JG 301 always had the red band aft, yet this is clearly not the case in this photo. The authors dismiss this by saying something to the effect the unit's painter got the order of color mixed up ("reverse application"). IMHO this unsubstanciated conclusion is a BIG leap into a deep, deep hole. Then too, if this was a JG 301 aircraft, where's the gruppen mark? There isn't any!
Same comments also apply to the other Crow photo attributed to JG 301. Personally, I haven't any idea what unit operated these two 190s, but it sure wasn't JG 301.

[Erich]

Harold:

Blue 9 is from JG 301, 4th staffel. Gruppe bars were not always carried on JG 301 craft, besides the I. gruppe would not carry them anyway. Photo evidence proves the reverse of the two colored tailband in several shots of Stab and I. gruppe birds. It is the wide acceptance that JG 301 indeed received some of their first A-8's in September 44 from JG 11 having the single yellow band, red was added by JG 301 ground crews

E ~

[Jerry Crandall]

Hi Guys,
Erich is right. There are several known examples of JG 301 Fw 190s that were ex JG 11 machines where the red band was simply added in front of the existing yellow JG 11 band. "Blue 9" still had the JG 11 "strong man" emblem under the port side under the cockpit area when it was photographed at wars end.
Cheers, Jerry

[O.Menu]

Hi Harold,

I was thinking like you until Steve Sheflin tell us he had color photo proof about reversed JG301 tailband...

And now if Jerry Crandall tell us that JG11 "strong man" emblem is visible on the port side... We certainly have the good explanation...

[Harold Lake]

For me, here's the bottom line: claiming W.Nr. 737938 was really operated by JG 301, without supporting official documentation, just because the colors of this airplane's tail bands appear to resemble those of the well know JG 301, is LAZY research. Covering up ignorance by language (e.g. "reverse application") for a supposed unit error is meaningless. I say that if it can be proved that W.nr. 737938 did in fact fly with JG 301, as the authgors claim, then as far as I'm concerned, that nails it. But, the notion that the officers of JG 301 would have permitted such an obvious bungling of an important aircraft unit recohnition device is pure nonsense, so what is Mr. Sheflin's evidence?

[Jerry Crandall]

Hi guys;
Steve Scheflin was way ahead of his time as he turned up a color slide of "White 5" Fw 190 A-8 with Red/Yellow bands but in the reverse order from the 'normal' JG 301 sequence. More and more photos of these reverse order color bands that were known to have been in JG 301 kept turning up. For instance, "White 5" Fw 190 A-8, 2 "Blue 9" Fw 190 A-8s, "Black <" Fw 190 A-8 and "Black <4" Fw 190 A-8. All of these have the Yellow band at the rear and the Red band to the front.

During our interview with JG 301 veterans, we found out why - here is a quote from the story written by Roderich Cescotti, the Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 301 and T.O. of JG 301 that he wrote for my forthcoming Dora book: "Some Focke-Wulf aircraft we received from JG 11 had Yellow bands painted around the rear of the fuselage. To save time and paint, we simply added the Red band in front of the existing Yellow band, resulting in the reversal of our normal sequence of Yellow/Red." This was also confirmed by the Geschwaderkommodore Fritz Auffhammer who had some revolutionary ideas about markings and identification in his Geschwader, JG 301. More detailed information will be covered in my Dora book.
Cheers,
Jerry