Gunner ace

[Stirrick]

I've seen a few references to a John Robertson, who apparantly was credited with shooting down 12 Bf 109's while serving as a Wellington rear-gunner. His grandson published a few facts about his life:

http://carol_fus.tripod.com/raf_hero_jrobertson.html

But nothing about his claims.

Does anyone have more information ?
As far as I can make out Robertson served with 99 sqn during 1940 and 108 sqn (in North Africa) in 1942. But both times primarily on night operations.

So how does the claim for a dozen 109's fit in ?

[Hans Nauta]

Hi Stirrick,

There's something weird with the log book entries in 1940. First of all the mentioned serials don't match with actual Wellington serials and secondly the dates with mentioned targets don't fit at all.

Will dig some further in the matter...

Regards,
Hans

[Stirrick]

Thanks Hans.

I must admit that something doesn't look right here.

In other references I've seen, this Gunner is referred to as 'John Roberts' rather than 'John Robertson' and his service as having been in Blenheims. Though Blenheims would fit better with multiple combats with Bf 109's.

The quoted birthdate in the link - 1924 - is also surely wrong. The logbook quotes over 250-hrs flying time in June,1940 which would suggest a pre-war airman.

Interesting !!

[Hans Nauta]

Hi Stirrick,

Further examination of the log book on the website and Operations Record Book of 99 Squadron reveals that there is no match regarding serials, missions or even names of crew members...

Before I'm beginning to presume the worst: anyone else other ideas? Am I overlooking something?

Regards,
Hans

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

His Middle East/108 Sqn entries appear to be kosher. I believe his pilot was: R75448 F/Sgt (Pilot) Douglas Palmer HOBSON RCAF (later DFM) - see http://rcafassociation.ca/heritage/search-awards - just place R75448 in Search Keyword box.

Col.

[phasselgren]

Hi,

Checked A History of the Mediterranean Air War Vols 1 and 2. The air gunners of 108 Squadron only claimed a Ju 88 destroyed and a twin-engined fighter possibly destroyed during 1942.

It was not unusual for the Wellington crews to strafe enemy airfields during the Desert war. It is possible that the Me 109s were claimed during strafing?

Cheers
Peter

[Larry]

A cautionary note to say that when my father flew Wellingtons, most of the time he made up the serial numbers in his log book, as did other pilots because no one cared that much. It much depended on how much those in charge of the Sqn or unit were sticklers for the rules!

As any researcher will testify not everything that happened in WW2 was written down and recorded and not everything that was written down and recorded actually happened!

[Stirrick]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

The thing I find a bit disturbing is that 'John Roberts' - with the 12 x Bf 109 claims - is quoted on a number of reliable sites as an 'ace' air-gunner. Yet I can't find anything on him on-line apart from this one site.

Would it also be valid for a Gunner to only make operational flights ? There are no non-operational flights listed in these log-book entries.

[Chris Goss]

Logbook would list both operational and non-operational flight so you are right

[Stirrick]

Cheers Chris.

I presume you've not come across this guy either ?

All starting to look a bit suspect, I'm afraid.
And amazing how it's become enshrined as fact with very little factual evidence.

http://aces.safarikovi.org/victories...th-gunner.html

Always found Jan Safarik's site very good.