W.Nr. of Me 262 flown by Ofw. Willi Banzhaff

[JonOlsen88]

Hello everybody,

I was wondering if anyone knows, or could make an educated guess, about the W.Nr. of the Me 262 that Willi Banzhaff was shot down in. According to Me 262 in Combat by Marek Murawski, Banzhaff was shot down on November 3rd 1944 by a Tempest pilot, J.B. Wray.

Since the Me 262 was an early production machine serving with Kommando Nowotny, I'm thinking that the W.Nr. would probably belong to the 170xxx, 130xxx, or 110xxx series. Interestingly, J.B. Wray described the Me 262's he encountered on that day (one of which was Banzhaff's) as "...camouflaged in blue and grey..." (Murawski Pg. 30). This indicates that the Me 262 was painted in RLM 74 and 75.

Thoughts?

Best regards,
Jon

[focusfocus]

Me,I have the date of 04/11/44

Me 262 A-1a (110483) NS+BK 3./Kdo Nowotny but another source says (111483)

Michel

[Karoband]

Hi Jon,

Michel is correct. From a document in Smith & Creek, Me 262 Volume Two, (1998), p.412:

"Schaudenstellung der Flugzeugausfallen beim Kdo. Nowotny

… 110483 4.11.44 b. Lunneberg (verm. abge-
schussen) 99% Obfhr. Banhaff …"

W/C Wray's claim is for 3 November. I cannot explain the discrepancy.

best regards,

Jim

[JonOlsen88]

Perfect.Thanks Michel and Jim. I'm somewhat surprised that an Me 262 from the 1104xx series would be painted in greys. But then again, color photos show that even "White 17" W.Nr. 110956 was in greys!

[Adriano Baumgartner]

The 2 volume of "The 2nd TAF" by Shores and Thomas do have a "probably shot down" Me 262 attributed to W/C J B Wray around 15:05hs near Venraj-Geldern (flying Tempest V, serial EJ650 - coded JBW) on the 3rd November. It seems the claim was later downgraded to "damaged". The authors do quote that this may seems an Arado Ar 234 and says that other sources (maybe the Me 262 Combat Diary book) says it was the Me 262 piloted by Banzhaff, that crashed near Hittfeld.

However, on the 4th, W/O W F Ross from 80 Squadron also claimed a Me 262 destroyed on the ground at RHEINE, around 15:50hs. Later downgraded to a "damaged" on the Ground.

This information do comes from the pages 335-336 of the above mentioned EXCELLENT book, which I fully recommend.

Adriano B.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Small typo correction: JBW was serial EJ750, not 650 as previously written. sorry for the typo.

[JonOlsen88]

Excellent information, Adriano! You have helped explain the discrepancy with the dates.

So, perhaps Banzhaff wasn't actually shot down by J.B. Wray after all. To summarize the data which Adriano, Jim, and Michel have kindly contributed, it appears Banzhaff was killed on Nov. 4th in an Me 262 with W.Nr. 110483. Assuming these details are accurate, the Me 262 J.B. Wray shot at (and may or may not have destroyed) on November 3rd was most likely not flown by Banzhaff since he would have died the next day. And the Me 262 that Wray destroyed on Nov. 4th (the same day as Banzhaff's death) likewise couldn't have been Banzhaff's since he didn't crash at Rheine, but near Hittfeld.

This raises another question. If the Me 262 that Wray badly damaged or possibly destroyed on Nov. 3rd wasn't Banzhaff's, whose was it? And can we determine the W.Nr.? I'm especially curious because Wray specifically remembers that the Me 262 he shot on Nov. 3rd was "camouflaged in blue and grey," and I'd like to know if early production Me 262's from the 110*** series were painted in greys.

Does anyone have a different interpretation of events? I'm all ears!

Best regards,

Jon