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  #81  
Old 23rd February 2018, 23:30
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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JG 51 victories (Part 2)

Hi Nokose

I just want to express my gratitude to you for creating these threads and posting this type of information for us. Such information concerning the air war in Russia is much more difficult to come across for me, at least, so your posts are of great usefulness. Thank you so very much!

Horrido!

Leo
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  #82  
Old 7th September 2018, 15:14
Courtois Laurent Courtois Laurent is offline
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Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokose View Post
31 Aug 1943 Yelnya
Maj. Mariano Cuadra Medina 15.(Span.)/JG 51 LaGG-3 (7) 13:05 PlQu. 35 Ost/35374 at 4000 m.
Lt. Jose Mateos Recio 15./JG 51 LaGG-3 (3) 12:57 SE Yelnya at 4000 m.

1 OIAP "Normandie" has 9 Yak-1 covering Soviet forces at Yelnya on observing the approach of 100 He 111 and under escort of 20 Fw 190 which they attacked west of Yelnya. In the ensuing dogfight at 14:10 (Moscow) the Yak-9 (side # 0435) [Doesn't appear all were Yak-1] flown by Capt. Paul de Forges (MIA) is shot down west of Yelnya and also the Yak-1 of Aspirant Jean De Sibour (MIA). Capt. de Forges aircraft was recovered after the war but he is still MIA. His was possibly shot down by Medina as the location is west of Yelnya.
the yak found at Byvalka is wrongly attributed to Paul de Forges was exhumed this summer.
What was said for 5 years, has been verified, it is not the plane of Paul de Forges (Yak-9 , side # 0435).
According to the russian data Jean de Sibour was flying that day with yak 9 (side #0439)
But a Yak-1b (serial number: 04142) of a Soviet unit that remains to be discovered.
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  #83  
Old 7th September 2018, 15:51
Courtois Laurent Courtois Laurent is offline
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Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)

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Originally Posted by Nokose View Post
05 Aug 1942 near Pogoreloe Gorodishche . Alekseev was attempting to intercept Ju 88 bombers on being shot down.

Yak-7B 66 IAP Ml. Lt. Sergey Pavlovich Alekseev (KIA)

9./JG 51 Ofw Georg Seidel LaGG-3 (35) 11:50 57712 at 2500 m.

Leo, very interesting on GC 3 Normandie. Do you have any information on the death of d' Aspirant Andre Largeau on the 14 Sep 1943 from GC 3 Normandie? If so send me a PM or put it here.
André Largeau was shoot down during the attack of the Borovskoye airport (Gradnetz : 35 0st ; 25641).

Full informations here.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=18216
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  #84  
Old 1st March 2019, 22:52
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Nokose Nokose is offline
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Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)

31 Oct 1941 Naro-Fominsk - Kamenka (Moscow area) 12:25 -13:20 (MT)
Oblt Gottfried Schlitzer 9./JG 52 shot down an I-61 (8) and another I-61 (9) at 11:55 with no location listed.
Soviet loss: MiG-3 16 IAP Ml. Lt. Vasiliy Avdeev (KIA) 2 km SE of Naro-Fominsk

04 Nov 1941 Naro-Fominsk -Kamenka 13:20 - 14:10 (MT)
I-16s of the 16 IAP attacked by 4 Bf 109. I checked all the German claims and only IV./JG 51 fit into this time period. Oblt. Helmut Lohoff 9./JG 51 claimed an I-16 (10) with no time and no location. So I can’t say positively that he was involved. Obfw. Bernard Lausch 8./JG 51 shot down an I-16 (22) at 12:40 and Uffz. Gerhard Wille 8./JG 51 shot down an I-16 (13) at 12:55, both didn’t provide a location but this unit was the only one making claims for I-16s in that area. The I-16 from the 16 IAP flown by Lt. Konstantin Korshunov (KIA) was the only 16 IAP loss.

Last edited by Nokose; 1st March 2019 at 23:05. Reason: Correction on the name from Avgeev to Avdeev.
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  #85  
Old 1st March 2019, 23:17
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Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)

23 Oct 1941 Kamenka - Kamenskoe (Moscow area) 15:00 - 16:07 (MT)
Dogfight between 3 MiG-3 of the 16 IAP under Lt. Ivan Zabolotny. Lt. Zabolotny (in Russian Заболотный) shot down in that area a Me-109 (3) but is not confirmed in German records.
Obfhr. Ernest Weismann 12./JG 51 shot down an I-61 (9) at 14:19, Lt. Wolfgang Böwing-Treuding 12./JG 51 shot down an I-61 (5) at 14:25 and Obfhr. Weismann shot down another I-61 (10) at 14:26, both did not provide a location. I checked these claims against other German claims and these are the only one matching the time period in this area. According to the Journal of Combat Operations of the 16 IAP, only one MiG-3 was shot down but I couldn’t find the pilot’s name.
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  #86  
Old 2nd March 2019, 00:25
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)

Michael, good evening.
It is very difficult to compare claims in the area during this period. There were a lot of regiments on the MiG-3 and there were a lot of losses. Two weeks ago, in this area, dig up MIG-3 177 IAP - also allegedly crashed on 23.10.1941. Also these days there were a lot of losses a little to the north, where JG51 planes also flew. Found in this area about 20 MiG-3. And a lot has not been found.
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  #87  
Old 2nd March 2019, 01:40
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Re: JG 51 victories (Part 2)

Hello Kirche, unfortunately, most of all the German claims for 1941 left out their location. So the times are the only things putting them in these areas. I checked all the other claims for the times of 23 Oct 1941 and this is the only one falling in the Soviet mission time period. So “Possibly” is the only thing that can be used in guessing any claim but this one does seem very close. I went through many reports around the advance to Leningrad and found a lot of Soviet aircraft reported shot down by Bf 109 but no matching German claims. Actually, I saw more Soviet aircraft reported shot down by Bf 110 then in surviving German records for those type units. I would be glad to hear more about the recovered 177 IAP MiG-3. Uffz. Günther Schack 7./JG 51 was shot down on the 23 Oct 1941 and would be curious as to who got him but I don’t think it was Zabolotny.
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