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  #21  
Old 12th November 2011, 23:35
Oberst Oberst is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

My appologies, wasn't accusing a dismissal, perhaps the wrong word I used. Spinter camo is interesting. The very light part would be RLM 76? Darker RLM 74 or 75?
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  #22  
Old 12th November 2011, 23:53
veltro veltro is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

As a mere hypothesis, RLM 76 could be a viable option. It wouldn't be the first time that colour was used in a splinter pattern on the wings.
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  #23  
Old 13th November 2011, 01:18
the_ivan the_ivan is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

Ferdinando,

Your photo clearly shows the desiccant capsule in the lateral windscreen panel, so this machine is a G-5. In fact, and IMHO, such capsules are the only clue for assertion of this subtype if the W.Nr. is not visible, especially if the Erla-Haube has been retrofitted (like Graf's G-5 of Stab/JG 11 on Graf & Grislawsi A pair of Aces).

As for the set of photos from Bundesarchiv, they are dated August 44 but this is clearly an error, since the third man is the Staffelkapitän of 4./JG 11, Gerhard Sommer, who was KIA on 12 May 44.
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  #24  
Old 13th November 2011, 01:39
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

Gentlemen,

I'm a little confused by the way this thread developed so I think it might not do any harm if I put in some facts.

First, there is no doubt concerning the WerkNr. 110 064 as this can be clearly seen in a number of photos, one of which is published in our JG 1/ 11 history, Vol. 2, p. 843, photo no. 689.

Next - this series of photos was taken on or around April 8th, 1944, on the occasion of the award of the Knights Cross to Günther Specht. On the rudder of the a/c one can see 30 victory bars - Specht claimed his 29th and 30th victory on February 22nd, 1944, while his 31st followed on September 11th, 1944.

There is a private 8 mm colour movie film showing this a/c from an elevated position, which, blurred as it is, leaves no doubt, that there are no white or any other stripes on the upper wing surfaces; instead it shows quite clearly that this a/c had two strongly contrasting colours on the upper surfaces with rather wavy demarcation lines.

As to the exact colours used on this a/c I will completely refrain from any speculation.

Hope this helps to clarify some points.

Regards

Jochen Prien
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  #25  
Old 13th November 2011, 02:07
veltro veltro is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

I am pleased to stand corrected about the desiccant capsule which escaped me , so the one with the "flying pencil" should be a G-5/AS after all (I think it should be time that a clear diagram of the pressurized version with Erla hood should appear somewhere - if it has not already - since all the ones I've seen so far shows only how it was with a standard three-piece cockpit. Also an explaination of the presumably "fake" airscoop would be interesting).

If this goes for the photo I sent, the same should apply for the other aircraft shown in the other two images, but we are then having the same problem: did they were two different aircraft or the same shown at different times (remember the different badge in the same position and no signs of overpainting)?

Thanks to the welcome intervention of Jochen I'm glad that the "white bands" on the wings can be safely dismissed. Now the colour of the "double chevron" and the spiral rest to be assessed.
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  #26  
Old 13th November 2011, 02:35
Oberst Oberst is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

Yes, Mr. Prien provided some very valuble information. Very much appreciated! And for the ivan for bringing up the desiccant capsule. And veltro for making me think We now know they are G-5/AS. Judging by Günther Specht's expression and body position in the foto veltro provided, to mean he looks excited about his 'new' badge. perhaps an overpaint.

New rendition of the G-5 in question. Getting closer perhaps?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Specht18.jpg (165.3 KB, 114 views)

Last edited by Oberst; 13th November 2011 at 17:26. Reason: corrected info..
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  #27  
Old 13th November 2011, 03:03
veltro veltro is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberst View Post
Judging by Günther Specht's expression and body position in the foto veltro provided, to mean he looks excited about his 'new' badge. perhaps an overpaint.
Glad to be of help, but those two are not the same aircraft.

Even the mottles in the cockpit area are different...and I still can't see any trace of overpainting.
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  #28  
Old 13th November 2011, 03:17
Oberst Oberst is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

Could be shadows, or lots of other artifacts. I can't say one way or the other without more facts. You are always a huge help in matters like these my friend.
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  #29  
Old 13th November 2011, 09:33
Phas3e Phas3e is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jochen Prien View Post
There is a private 8 mm colour movie film showing this a/c from an elevated position, which, blurred as it is, leaves no doubt, that there are no white or any other stripes on the upper wing surfaces; instead it shows quite clearly that this a/c had two strongly contrasting colours on the upper surfaces with rather wavy demarcation lines.
This maybe presumptuous but is it possible to get a discription of the camouflage, and maybe a diagram. I undrestand its a private film so you dont have to take stills but it would be good to fill in the blanks on how this aircraft really looked.
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  #30  
Old 13th November 2011, 17:02
Charles Bavarois Charles Bavarois is offline
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Re: Gunther Specht's Bf 109G-5/AS, W.Nr.110 064

Hello Guys,

may I add a few toughts to this topic?

As Jochen said, Werknummer 110064 was a G-5 from Erla-Leipzig with first BAL acceptance on 10. Jan. 1944. As Leipzig built no AS-aircraft at that time, it presumably was a regular G-5 with DB 605 A engine.

The color of the fixed canopy is of a bright pale shade, as is most of the airframe. The darker colors are painted on very crudely and they avoid the markings. This is typical for AS-engined aircraft from Erla-Antwerpen, which were delivered in 76 all over and sometimes got more camo only at unit-level. For that reason, the splinter-camo on the wings have an unusually bright (76) background color.

It takes some time to repair a damaged aircraft. I don’t think, that WNr 110064 was delivered to Luftwaffe, damaged and then then put to repair at Erla-Antwerpen. The time-frame from early Jan to early April is simply too short. I assume the newly built G-5 was sent directly from Leipzig to Antwerpen for installing the AS-engine, which was not unique btw. Perhaps Rasmussen can help us with this issue.

At Antwerpen they did not only change the engine. They also attached a new Erla-canopy, indicated by the tubular frame at the rear cockpit. And they got rid of the equipment for pressurizing the cabin. To ventilate the now sealed cabin, they added those air-scoops beneath the forward canopy-frame. And they added also small rectangular flaps in the fuselage directly under the cockpit. These flaps ("Belüftungsklappe" in Ersatzteilliste) were moveable from the inside and could be opened to improve airflow. They were regular items on non-pressurized Gustavs. Both features are clearly recognizable on the foto. And finally they rebuilt the GM-1-device as to deliver MW-50, which is clear from the “C3”-triangle.

As Luftwaffe was not happy with the cabin of the G-5s, at some later date it war ordered to dismantle the compressor for recycling. I do not know, whether the Baureihenbezeichnung of such aircraft was changed from G-5 to G-6. But I don’t think so, as in spite of lacking the compressor, the airframe itself remained different in many ways to G-6. As for Spechts aircraft, I’ll tend to the Baureihenbezeichnung ”G-5/U2 AS”

And last, a notice for my friend Veltro: A moveable part of the canopy, very similar to the Erlahaube was developed for the pressurized Me 209 H. As the 209 H never appeared and late Bf 109 did not need this feature, IMHO it never got to series-production. AFAIK the few AS-engined Bf 109s which needed the pressurized cabin for some reason kept their old-style canopy.

Great topic, please carry on.

Carl
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